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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2010
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I happily purchased Ego Draconis the day it came out on Steam but outright refuse to buy DKS entirely due to the DRM and install limits. It is 100% ridiculous to have redundant double DRM that does nothing to protect the game from piracy, and there is no argument anyone can make to change my opinion on that. I change hardware and reformat a lot. I also like to keep my desktop, laptop, and gaming-capable HTPC synced when it comes to games. Steam makes this extremely easy via copying the steamapps folder as needed. 3rd party activation based DRM like SecuROM immediately kills that ability. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to manually uninstall your game or try to remember to deactivate it each time I change a piece of hardware in fear of losing an activation on two different PCs that often have hardware swapped between them. I'm definitely not going to do that when reformatting. Instead, I'm simply not going to buy your game until the additional DRM has been patched out or, if that never happens, not buy it at all. Throw in my past bad experiences with SecuROM, and I fully understand why past posters have been slightly insulting towards those defending it. Some of the problems I've had in the past before simply banning it from my system altogether: retail discs not being acknowledged as legit (FEAR), activations not occurring properly (BioShock), legitimate (sometimes paid!) software being disabled (Process Explorer/Alcohol 120% - both of which can be used for evil, but that doesn't invalidate their legit uses or make it okay for another piece of software to disable them without permission), and plain old crashing and poor performance (Mass Effect retail compared to the Steam version, Titan's Quest as well).
To answer your question, In the past we always removed the DRM from our games after a certain amount of time and this will be no different here. Can we get an idea of when this would happen? Months from now? A year? YEARS from now? I'd like to know when I might be able to purchase your game without getting a poorer, more inconvenient experience than someone that decides to pirate it.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Nov 2010
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Actually i think it is like this:
No securom = no publisher = no money = no game Sorry to counter-act you on this but this is becoming less and less true day by day and here's why: NPD was once a reliable source of sales of all gaming consoles and has been falsely (or rather, ignorantly) reporting for 2 straight years that PC Gaming has been dying due to it's lack of sales. These sales however also completely and utterly failed to show Steam, Impulse, GOG, and etc. sales figures as well as Amazon. Only NOW are they actually figuring in the sales figures from these and at least estimating from Steam. Steam is owned by Valve, Valve isn't publicly traded hence has no obligation to show these sales figures, however, they do show how many people are playing what game and hence it's very possible to gather sales figure estimates from that. Furthermore, B&M (Brick & Mortar) places are pulling back sales of PC Games altogether (an inside source of Gamestop, whom is also a subsidiary of EB Games has confirmed this.) My point is this: Publishers are no longer needed for PC game sales. I'm pulling this number out of my rear but I want to say that over 70% of game sales are on online distribution methods now instead of B&M. It's THESE online distribution methods that are acting as a publisher for a much smaller share of the profits. Last I checked I believe from an article that Tripwire Interactive (Zombie Driver, Killing Floor, The Ball, etc.) stated that only 15% of their sales were going to Steam, and I've heard elsewhere on forums that this amount goes up to 25%. I have no idea what a publisher yanks from each sale but I'd have to assume that it's much higher. I do admit I'm a fledgling to the whole market but I also have a fresh pair of eyes to the whole thing and publishers seem to have nothing more to add to PC Gaming. Rather, they detract. I will ALSO admit that I am in the states where the worst bandwidth caps we have to deal with are about 100 or so gigs from Comcast, it might be different in Germany or where this company is located and THAT might be case enough. Please feel free to prove me wrong but the smallish indie company I'm starting is taking a very strict anti-publisher stance only because of the recent digital distribution methods. Publishers more often then not also pay for the development of the game. If PC developers quit using publishers, then the only Triple A games would be on the consoles. People who buy Indie games are a small niche, and developers would get very little money to be able to actually make a Triple A quality games.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2010
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Lasting, lilting, ever tilting, the scales that tune our wallets,
A lasting chime in sheepish rhyme, or whatever one may call it,
One must say that greed has paid the price for sleeping nights,
Yet my wallet sings not to your song, as my patience begins to wane,
Beware before wishful Knights decide to deny publisher's pride . . .
And that your 'sometime soon,' then becomes, sadly, too little, very much too late.
or . . .
SecuRom suxxorz, u want our moneh? Ur publishur wants our moneh?
Remoov SecuRom b4 we giv up and do not bai ur game at all- evur.
A Wishful Knight,
deathgiant
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2010
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Publishers more often then not also pay for the development of the game. If PC developers quit using publishers, then the only Triple A games would be on the consoles. People who buy Indie games are a small niche, and developers would get very little money to be able to actually make a Triple A quality games.
Okay that's the answer I was looking for. Most of our stuff honestly comes from people providing their own tools and the tools I *do* provide are usually open source free ones, for example: Blender, Hammer, etc. Yeah they do lack the professional cutting edginess that is more available like in titles like this one. Okay I fully get you now. While it does legitimize the use of publishers and normal investors, unfortunately Publishers still need to do some damned research and not be bought into other sales people for these 3rd party DRM services which defeat their own purpose. eisberg - Seriously, thank you for this answer, it's exactly what I needed to know and hear. 
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Nov 2010
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Steam has this game for 50% off, and you've lost my money. Securom has not yet been taken down. Stop treating legitimate customers like criminals.
That said, the DRM is something most publishers insist on and a bonus for a developer is that online activation systems do allow more transparency in terms of what the actual sales are.
Then stick to steam as a drm, and a method to tell you how many copies you're selling.
Securom also encrypts our exe which makes it harder to reverse-engineer. Publishers may like the anti-piracy idea, developers can sleep at night because they believe their code is somewhat more secure.
Yea right. Ubisoft's DRM was cracked in 1~2months. NOTHING is uncrackable, NOTHING can stop editing of files. Honestly, L2think. Time to pirate this piece of crap, with securom cracked and shaved off.
Last edited by RevoCep; 01/01/11 07:01 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2011
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Actually i think it is like this:
No securom = no publisher = no money = no game I can understand that retail copies need some kind of DRM, but why do you force Steam customers to have to deal with more DRM than what Steam already is? DRM, yes, but two layers? And the above statement can be true for Steam, since only about 30 titles of the 1200+ titles on Steam have extra DRM on top of the DRM that Steam already is.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2010
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%50 off is on Steam today is really tempting offer but 3rd party DRM on Steam is really bad. I hope you will remove it soon, Steam is already a DRM and people loves it.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2004
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%50 off is on Steam today is really tempting offer but 3rd party DRM on Steam is really bad. I hope you will remove it soon, Steam is already a DRM and people loves it. I don't love Steam's DRM. I just tolerate it, like most DRM's. It's just Steam isn't as bad as most modern-day DRM schemes.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Dec 2010
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Your loss... if your going to let SecuRom stop you from enjoying this game.
Everybody say they hate Securom ?
Why ?
It doesn't melt your computer or cause it to implode. Everybody says they hate it..but never say why.
I've never had any problems with it...SecuRom or STEAM DRM.
Some of the reasons I read are pretty inane.
It has an install limit...whoopie ! Just uninstall and get your activation back.
It leaves stuff behind...duh..so does half the software in the world. There is a tool to remove all traces of Securom.
You probably pick up worst things just surfing the net then what SecuRom does..which after many years and many SecuRom games..does absolutely nothing.
Then there are the simple things like welcoming a pirate on these very forums with open arms just because he repented on this one game ( Out of who knows how many ? )
And you wonder why we " honest " gamers get crappy DRM..
People say I'm crazy..but the voices in my head say I'm just fine.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2004
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Oh, my complaint isn't w/ Securom here - I've dealt w/ it many, many, many times before. And chances are - I'll wind up dealing w/ it again, too. I ain't had too many problems w/ it - knock on wood.
My complaint is w/ the Steam version ALSO containing additional DRM - such as Securom - b/c it's just absolutely redundant, since Steam is always required on Steam-sold games.
Either one form of DRM or the other, please. Hence why I'm keeping my eye on prices for non-Steam sold versions of DKS - Impulse, Gamersgate, etc.
Last edited by MysterD; 02/01/11 08:51 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2006
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No Steam isn't required for Steam-sold game, I'm surprised you don't know that and thanks it isn't required. Cut your internet connection and launch any installed Steam game you want, no Steam control then and better be like that otherwise I would never buy any game from them. And don't think there's a time limit or if there's one it's not linked to a game in particular or it is very long.
The second DRM added isn't a problem of pointless duplicate the problem is coming from the limit management, because there's many reason you can burn them, uninstall that crash, drive failure, computer crash, manual delete, reformat drive and so on. This DRM install limit need manages those cases and it doesn't.
Last edited by Fend; 03/01/11 04:28 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2011
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Steam is required. You can play Steam in offline mode, but the games still launch the Steam client if you try to start their executables (well, some just displays error messages).
Last edited by YachmenevSWE; 03/01/11 06:51 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2006
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Steam you mean the client but Steam is Steam ie the server. But well there's perhaps a copy protection without any connection to the server something I didn't knew in fact.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2010
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Your loss... if your going to let SecuRom stop you from enjoying this game.
Everybody say they hate Securom ?
Why ?
It doesn't melt your computer or cause it to implode. Everybody says they hate it..but never say why.
I've never had any problems with it...SecuRom or STEAM DRM.
Some of the reasons I read are pretty inane.
It has an install limit...whoopie ! Just uninstall and get your activation back.
It leaves stuff behind...duh..so does half the software in the world. There is a tool to remove all traces of Securom.
You probably pick up worst things just surfing the net then what SecuRom does..which after many years and many SecuRom games..does absolutely nothing.
Then there are the simple things like welcoming a pirate on these very forums with open arms just because he repented on this one game ( Out of who knows how many ? )
And you wonder why we " honest " gamers get crappy DRM.. SecuCRAP destroyed the firmware on the DVD drives of my previous gaming PC, which is why I refuse to let it near my current gaming PC. I didn't know anything about SecuCRAP or care about it, until it affected me, now I hate it with a passion due to my experiences with it. Some people may be lucky with it, but others get knackered computers...and all for the crime of actually supporting developers and publishers, by buying their games! I'm not evangelistic about DRM, in and of itself, as I have tons of games on Steam...but SecuROM causes harm, end of story! Check out reclaimyourgame.com for background info about SecuROM destroying the functionality of peoples' PCs.
Last edited by 369; 03/01/11 10:05 PM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2004
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Steam is required. You can play Steam in offline mode, but the games still launch the Steam client if you try to start their executables (well, some just displays error messages). Correct. I've run a game when Steam's servers are down for maintenance - i.e. Left 4 Dead 1 - from its EXE shortcut off my desktop and...yup, it boots Steam program up. Steam's offline mode for me has worked fine, when needed - knock on wood! It wouldn't connect to Steam's servers, obviously - but the Steam program itself did boot up.
Last edited by MysterD; 03/01/11 11:16 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2011
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My dislike of SecuROM is tied to two main factors:
1-Given the state of things, any arguments made that it curbs piracy are ridiculous, since just about every game using it ends up cracked in a very short period.
2-It's caused issues for me before in using things like TexMod to improve textures, because SecuROM freaks out. Honestly, it's nobody's business what tweaks I want to do to graphics and the like, as long as I'm not trying to redistribute the game.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2011
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Actually, this is a rare example of a game that runs fine without Steam running, even if you bought it through Steam. Close up Steam totally and run Divinity2.exe and test it. Steam won't load. You'll probably be surprised.
Can't wait for the patch to kill SecuRom though. I've apparently used two activations. If I run out I'll have to hit up torrent sites!
Last edited by darkling; 15/08/11 07:54 PM.
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Support
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Support
Joined: Mar 2003
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If you run out of activations you can manually revoke some from a form on Securom's site (assuming you don't still have access to those systems or can not uninstall the game while online), or contact them to get the limit reset.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2004
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I dont' really understand the reason for using securerom with steam. I see that many publishers require drm; but in steam case valve (the publisher) is not asking for secure-rom on top of steam drm. - My problem with securerom is that it is buggy  The revocation stuff almost never works because the reason I end up having to install a game more than once is the old system needs to be reinstalled. - As to how buggy is secure-rom; look at all the issues cdp had with witcher 2. They ended up just dropping the drm because it was causing them so many headaches.
Last edited by meme; 15/08/11 10:13 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2011
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If you run out of activations you can manually revoke some from a form on Securom's site (assuming you don't still have access to those systems or can not uninstall the game while online), or contact them to get the limit reset.
Well, that's handy in any case! Revoking activations is kinda silly though. It's not like I uninstalled the game, I re-installed Windows! :P I'll probably never have to deal with this though, as likely by the time I hit #5 this will be patched out. I dont' really understand the reason for using securerom with steam. I see that many publishers require drm; but in steam case valve (the publisher) is not asking for secure-rom on top of steam drm. To be fair, this doesn't *have* Steam DRM. You can run Divinity 2 without Steam running. Which is fantastic and I don't know why more companies don't do it!
Last edited by darkling; 15/08/11 11:01 PM.
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