Larian Studios Forums Divinity II The Dragon Knight Saga / Flames of Vengeance (English) Divinity II - The Dragon Knight Saga *Spoilers* Ideas for divinity 3

So over the past few days i have been posting in various topics, spreading ideas thin in each, so i have decided to create a page to collect all my ideas and throw them all in one big pot. (i have copy and pasted most of this from my earlier posts, to, like i said, throw them in one big pot, so i may repeat some of my points or ideas)

there has seem to been no mention of dragon commander linking into the story too much, but what would be awesome is have it mentioned or something in future divinty games, maybe in divinty 3 maybe you have to search through the wreckage of the raven (to find something to weaken damian or something, maybe get the princes jetpack to use for yourself :D) as i dont see myself wanting to play as anyone else other than my dragon knight again.



i can agree with that aswell, just imagine a game like skyrim or mass effect being isometric, oh no, bad bad bad, divine divinty is enjoyable right now (im 8 hours in) but i find myself only sitting down for a few hours at a time, then quiting from boredom, or rage quiting from how difficult some of the bits are, and how awkward it is to buy/sell things or consume a potion or select a skill mid-combat (most of the time i find my character in combat trying to use repair, not hell spikes as intended :L) but with Divinty 2 - The dragon knight saga, i sat down for 12+ hours every day, and i got so immersed into the game, i could not get to sleep, thinking about what might happen next in the story, and when i finished the game i got all depressed. (yea, i was/am addicted, but you can understand why, i had WAY more fun than any other RPG i have ever played) before playing D2:DKS the game at the top of my most epic list was Spore, now it is divinty 2 the dragon knight saga, and thats a bold statement, seeing as i sunk about 3000-8000 hours into spore and only 40-45 into divinty 2, when i finished the game it felt wrong to start a new character as i had grown so attached to my character, where as in divine divinity, i am thus far not even bothered about my character, im just some dude in the sky, if i had made my character from scratch, and had emotional attachments to other characters (like the dragon knight to rhode) then that would be a different story

i am now out of my depression and looking forward to going through the game for a second time, and doing some side quests i missed, but something tells me im not going to be sitting down for 12+ hours a day anymore

Original sin, and Dragon commander are both set before Divine divinity, so there is a big possibility they wont fit into the story, and are just a one off thing, larian experimenting with what people like to give them ideas on what kind of games they could make after the last divinity game, otherwise they would be stuck with no games or ideas, if you ask me Original sin and Dragon commander are just to fill time, which i don't mind, the longer they spend on divinity 3 the better a game it will be, there was atleast a good 5 year time gap between divine divinty and divinity 2, hopefully when they finish Original sin and dragon commander they'll start work on Divinity 3, which i hope i get to play as MY dragon knight again, because that's what makes the game unique, i mean, name me another RPG where you can shape-shift into a dragon, exactly, there is none, and what i mean by playing as MY dragon knight is i mean i want to play as the same character, i don't want to have to re-create my character and have him/her back at level 1 with bad armour, maybe larian could implement import save games, like what bioware did with mass effect.



Rhode being turned to stone and me having no way to save her. I had thought they were building towards some kind of reconciliation with her to defeat Damian. She was my mentor and just got thrown aside once in Ego Draconis and then goes off on a quest off-screen and has two seconds of an aside just as I'm confronting Bellegar and that's it.
When i first met Rhode, i half expected her to play a significant part in the story like the reconciliation story i mentioned.

Yea i'm abit miffed that all we got is a stone statue and almost no story with her
I expected to have to team up with Rhode in order to defeat Ygerna and Damian. Was shocked to see her in stone and not able to do anything about it (Even after siding with Bellegar.

i thought maybe by the end of the game Rhode whould of changed her mind about dragons etc, but there is no mention about her after the vault, you cant even re-enter the vault after it, the ending made me so depressed and saddened, i even wrote an alternate ending that they could add in, here it is, stating from the end of the vault:

Upon choosing to side with either bellegar or Behrlihn, everything plays out as normal, before either bellegar or Behrlihn telleports you to the ministry, you to turn around to see Rhode limping around the corner, unfrozen becasue you got rid of bellgar, either way etc, THEN you get telleported to the ministry, talk to augustus etc, you can ask about Rhodes return and he knows nothing about it, but when you initiate the end game by talking to Zandalor, Rhode barges through the main door of the ministry (after Zandalor tells of his plan) she gets pissed about you, once again (as always) but you can say things like "Rhode this is not the time, Damian is right on our doorstep etc etc" so she insists on being on the zepilin, so she does, the cutscene starts with the zepilins flying away etc, and instead of it being Titus talking to you during the escort segment, its rhode, you do the escort segment and when the zeplin is about to crash, you catch Rhode on your back while flying and she slowly gets consious again, and then there is a really touching scene where you talk to her for a bit (we have seen talking dragons in the game talk before so why cant you talk in dragon form) and it makes her change her mind about dragons and dragon knights and she thanks you for saving her life etc, you fly her down to the ministry and gently let her down and she thanks you again etc, THEN you get telleported by ygerna and you do the boss battle, free the devine etc, then there is the end cutscene, but its different, instead of the divine, Zandalor and deodoras, its: Zandalor, The divine and YOU, not some character you have talked to once (deodoras), but itstead of it being on the main enterance of the ministry, its on a big balcony on a tall building (a bit like buckingham palaces balcony IRL) and after the divine waves at the crowd, you jump onto the balcony ledge, jump and shape-shift right at the last second barely scraping the crowd, and taking someones hat with your claws, everyones cheers, and as you fly away, and the camera zooms out, instead of there being a random cat being there, Rhode is sitting there watching you fly off, thinking and regretting slying all those dragons in her life.

THE END
i personally think that would be a lot better ending to the game and it would make me less sadface if this WAS the ending, and not this slap in the face they have given us.

if they ever do make another 3rd person RPG, i hope they do what bioware did with mass effect and allow you to import save and play as MY dragon knight again, without having to remake her, and you actually get to see rhode again, i neither think Dragon commander or orginal sin will be the sequel as they are set before the orginal divinity game, "Devine divinity" , so we may have to wait a while for a sequel, and i hope if they do make a sequal then it will continue the story of the dragon knight you built up in the 2nd game and not do what bethesda did with skyrim and have the next game set hundreds of years after the previous game.

I also feel that the games story is unfinished, im itching to load up the game again and finish the story by killing damian to put my mind at ease, but i know forwell i cant, sure it may be in a sequel but im itching to finish it while the plot is still fresh in my head, however i will not mind if i wait for another year or two for the ability to import save from the second game to the next as i would hate to make a new character, like what they did if you hit the "start new game flames of venagnce" button, and wisks you away to the character creation screen and just gives you a few hundred skill points to allocate, you see i have grown so attached to my character, even if i re-made my character, it would not be the same.

i also agree with Quazar12, being a dragon knight and the dragon form was the thing that made the game unique from your run of the mill fantasy RPG, try and name another RPG where you can shape-shift into a dragon at will?

i would hate to play as the divine as, as i mentioned earlier, i have grown so attached to my dragon knight and i do not want to play as someone else, thats like if in mass effect you play as shepard the first two games then on the third game they gave you control over Joker or another member of the normandy crew, that would be both depressing and unappealing




i would of preferred to have gone into battle with damian, but i guess that's Larians way of saying "Hey, we are going to make a sequel" and until i read into it i did not know it was ygerna was was in your head in ego draconis and not talana as when the divine told you he was talking so fast i could not process what he was saying.


i was rather annoyed about Rhode because i live and breathe along with my character, i i felt i needed to prove myself to Rhode and Regain the honor for the dragons and dragon knights name because damian mind-tricked that dragon knight to imprison the divine, and that is yet another reason that it should be the dragon knight to fight damian, at least have it so your dragon knight fights damian, and when he is on his last legs unable to fight anymore it can be the divine to decide his fate, maybe get damian to re-live ygernas death over and over again for eternity? that could leave room for future games set after divinity 3 if larian wanted, where damian breaks free after centuries of re-living ygernas death over and over again, and seeks ultimate revenge over the dragon knight.



ah now that brings up the fact, what if you played as a female dragon knight in divinity 2?
could you perhaps have a lesbian relationship with her? (Mass effect 3 took a take on homosexual relationships, why not have it in other games)

but yea, i like your idea, but maybe you can make other dragon knights just by yourself like talana did, talana died from her wounds from the fight with rhode, not from making you a dragon knight, does this mean she may of survived making you a dragon knight if she hadn't of died from her wounds?

To be honest, playing as the divine may not be what some older players want as you did not play as him in divine divinity (as far as im aware of, i only recently got it myself and im 9 hours in) (but i cant really be the judge of what older players want when im only about 9 hours in)
however in D2:DKS you actually played as the dragon knight, like i said earlier i feel a lot more attached to a character if you play as him/her over multiple games (like mass effect) or if i made him/her myself (like D2:DKS) also i think your character being the silent protagonist makes you think about what his/her choice sounds like during conversations, which might lead to you thinking about other things about the character you have created, childhood, who they where before becoming a slayer, that kind of thing, which made me even more attached to my character, but in divine divinity i chose 1 character out of a selection of 6, and because of the camera being so far away, i just felt like some dude in the sky, not actually the character, i think to have older players satisfied is have something to do with the "marked ones" from divine divinity (but again, i would not know what they would want) or maybe if it is the conclusion to the epic that is divinity, have all the characters from all the other divinty games, like the prince from dragon commander, maybe you have to search through the wreckage of the raven, or the pair from original sin, have them mentioned, that way it keeps all the players happy, as i saw from E3, most people who had a look at dragon commander had no idea what divinity was, i even saw a youtube video on it on gamespot and machinima, people were saying things like "OMG why isn't this dragon think in a separate game, like an RPG, OMG" i replied with "go play divinity 2" dragon commander seems to be getting a lot more attention than than any of the other divinity games, which i think its a bit stupid as larian make mainly RPGs, and they dont get as much attention for those as they have dragon commander over the past few months or so since they announced it, or at-least since gamespots video "our dragon got a jet-pack, what has you got?"

anyway, back to my orginal point of having all the characters from the other divinity games, like have it where you search the wreckage of the raven, or maybe take the jetpack and use it for yourself, maybe speak to the spirit of the prince in his tomb, and maybe something from original sin (i dont know what i haven't researched into the game a lot because it doesn't look like my kind of game)

but in that way, it would make all the players of all the other divinity games happy

And as I've said before in dozens of posts, if Divinity 3 is going to be the end of Damian, then at it's heart, the story is of a father having to kill his foster son. Emotionally, it is the right thing to do to have the Divine be the one to kill Damian.

Story-wise, it is also the right thing to do - remember that the reason the Dragon Knight had to go through all the hullabaloo to enter the Hall of Echoes is because Damian is a demigod, and flat-out out-classed the Dragon Knight and everyone. That was the key part of the DKS story - Damian was too powerful to be defeated straight-up. The Divine is also a demigod, and is thus of equal power.

They can't have a non-Divine character do all the work in a boss fight and then bring in the Divine for a finisher cutscene. That won't be satisfying for the player - unless they were controlling the Divine. It won't do to build up a fresh character new to the series and play them for 50 hours only to switch to the Divine for the end. Therefore, I think you should play as the Divine for at least part of the game. Maybe that means playing as the Divine for the entire game, maybe it means switching between two or more different playable characters (which might include a Dragon Knight).

I don't mind if they bring a Dragon Knight into Divinity 3 - either a new character or the DKS Dragon Knight, but The Divine has to finish Damian. That's the heart of the conflict, not anything to do with the Dragon Knight.

I will tell you once again: Finish Divine Divinity before you decide that it's wrong to have the Divine as a character in Divinity 3.

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In a post I read recently, Macbeth said that they wanted a confrontation with Rhode in DKS, but ran out of time to do it. It was not an attempt to spite the player.

It won't do to build up a fresh character new to the series and play them for 50 hours only to switch to the Divine for the end.

What is the Divine One going to do for 50 hours? Unless he is fighting entire armies, or the time in the Plane of Hypnerotomachia reset his abilities, there is not much that we've seen in Rivellon that would offer much of a fight. Of course, Damian could always unveil his secret weapon, which adds 60 levels to all the bad guys, though Rivellon would need some excellent new defences not to be wiped out by anything that could pose a challenge to the Divine.

I'd be fine with Damian and the Divine being stalemated, with the player character having to do something (like rebuild the Council of Seven) to tip the balance (possibly in either direction).

There was general thread for such suggestions and ideas and thoughts. Why not use it?

that is actually a really good idea, because they are both demigods its very possible for a stalemate, and as i understand it, dragons are all powerful and omnipotent and all that, far superior to humans in divinty lore, so surely a half-human, half-dragon could do some damage against a demigod? not bring him down entirely but still do a lot of damage.



because these are my ideas and a LOT of them all in one place, if i just posted that into any other threat, chances are its not going to be about the current sub-topic people are discussing on any given page, this is one big pot of ideas.

Stabbey is correct - you need to complete Divinity before deciding on which playable character should finish Damian in Divinity 3. I won't say any more so not to spoil your game for you but wait and see what happens.

As I mentioned before, I think that it is right to have the Divine kill Damian and I think he was brought back at the end of DKS for this reason. Now as for the Dragon knight in my ideal Divinity 3 - he / she would also be playable character. This is the only way how I can see it keeping both DK / Divine groups happy but I have no idea how this would be implemented in the game. Most probably he / she is just a computer controlled ai sidekick that appears during the game at certain points with the option of you taking control whilst the ai controls the Divine. But for the final battle it should be the Divine.

That does make a certain amount of sense, they could do something like that. But I'm not sure that would make for the most enjoyable boss fight. If the player's main contribution is just hitting a few levers to activate a Damian-Zapper, or hitting Damian in the back a few times while he's occupied with the Divine, that's not exactly the most thrilling idea for a fight, now is it? You could see that for yourself in Divinity 2 by using your creature/Demon on some boss fights to distract the bosses, or in the fights in Laiken's tower when you have Sassan.

Depowered by the plane of whichever over the course of 50 years could work as an excuse to have some undercover low-level questing as the Divine recovers his strength, but I'm not sure what excuse the game could give if they wanted to use the DKS Dragon Knight as a player character, as they were crazy-powerful at the end of DKS (all my character ran out of places to put their tons of skill points).

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"Importing the saves" is a nice idea in theory, but at best, that wouldn't really provide more than a token benefit. It's too resource intensive to balance the game twice for completely new characters and imported high-level characters. How many players really would be able to use an old character? It was mostly done in Mass Effect because of the story consequences of your decisions.

Larian didn't even bother to carry over story threads from Ego Dragonis to Flames of Vengeance on the same playthrough of DKS. It didn't matter if you sided with Antumbra the assassin, or let Jackal go free, or didn't free Folo's pigs, or even if you never gave Willy a single coin - Antumbra and Jackal never showed up in Aleroth, Folo and Kevin did, and the game thinks that you did pay Willy some money (if you mind-read Willy in FoV). If they didn't do that for the same character in the same game, I don't think Larian is going to carry over saves for another game coming out three years after Divinity 2.

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Hmmm... here's an interesting thought - what if Original Sin is a trial run for the improved-over-BD two-player character concept, to see if it works with new characters in a side story instead of plunging that idea into Divinity 3 untried?

having the divine for a companion for the dragon knight is a good idea, as it will build a friendship between them both and the transition between switching to the divine wont be as confusing, but then again, if in divinty 2 it switched me to zandelor i would flip.



yes well doing side quests as the divine would be wierd as everyone you talk to would bow to you and all this you dont want, they would not give an errand to run to a demigod, thats just weird, the fact you were treated as royalty in divinity 2 in your battle tower, and in FoV worked because prior to those evens, you were called a slayer, the complete opposite of what you actually are, that might make some players cuss under their breath at a character who was calling you a slayer, or cringe, i know i certainly did, sometimes i even laughed when i heard "hello slayer" and i knew something about my character that the NPCs did not :P

That thought crossed my mind too. I wonder how it would work if they had the Dragon Knight and the Divine as the two characters in Divinity 3?

If the Divine is the main character in Divinity 3 I can't Larian forgetting the Dragon Knight. I mean his story isn't quite finished yet and they could include him in the game's plot even if he / she is a computer controlled NPC lending a hand (or wing!) whenever needed.

maybe have a co-op story mode? one player the dragon knight, one the divine? and to compensate for the dragon knight being able to fly, maybe the divine could sprout angel-like wings? lol, i have a feeling that friends who play that would argue about who should be the dragon knight

and just for the single-player, be the dragon knight but have the divine tag along for some of the plot quests?

The co-op mode was discussed before but I can't find the thread. Results were 50/50 - personally I think it would be a nice idea where the second player takes control of the otherwise AI controlled character. A lot disagreed though. Ill see if I can find the topic.

it is a nice idea, but for single player having a companion all the time would not work so well i think.

That is true. Hence the reason why I included the word "undercover" before "low-level questing". It could even use the illusionists that were mentioned in Divinity 2, so you get to customize your character's appearance temporarily until the main plot advances and the Divine is strong enough again to shed the disguise.

Pheefffff ... keep it simply, would you ?

Ideas for Divinity 3 ?
TONS & TONS of Humour and I'm very & very happy !!

lots of humour? might aswell be russel howard the game

Undercover? Stabbey this isn't a james bond game we are talking about here :L

Undercover in a fantasy RPG will not work, that'll just be weird aswell

Uh, hello, "Illusionists"? Those things that are in the Divinity 2 tutorial and specifically described as something one used to disguise their identity? You have one in the battle tower? In FoV there's a quest where male characters need to visit one to complete?

It would be really easy to have a story-based visit to an illusionist so you can only change at certain points like act changes.

Perhaps it's a silly idea, but I'd love to see some sort of "Mended Valley": there is an established pun in Pratchett's books where the Broken Drum pub became the Mended Drum after it burnt down, and we also know that at least some of the inhabitants of Broken Valley survived whether by luck or judgement. I know there's a whole world of new places to explore, but Broken Valley remains one of my all-time favourite videogame locations and I was terribly sad about what happened; I'd love to return to its green pleasantness. Well, and its psychotic fauna too.

That's a good idea it was a very good looking area of the game

What if it's someone else or something else besides the Divine One who kills Damian? In Tolkien's work, it was a hobbit (of all people) who played a pivotal part in defeating the Lord of the Rings.

A character can be weaker than Damian in combat, but that same character can still neutralize Damian if he/she orchestrates the right events.

The orchestration can take several forms:

1) Damian can be weakened to a combat level which is equal to that of the player character.

2) The player character's combat strength can be elevated to a level reached by Damian.

3) A key source or several key sources strengthening Damian meet destruction. Damian completely loses all power and is defeated.

4) A novel, diplomatic path, where victory is achieved without bloodshed.

In options 1 and 2, a battle takes place. Both good and evil forces are on equal footing and the protagonist has a chance to win.

This discussion brings up the possibility of creating different ending sequences for the game.

No matter how Divinity is designed, different ending sequences would give players the freedom to approach the game in their own way. The more paths to victory in a game, the greater the amount of options in successfully creating and playing a character from start to finish.