Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Free respec is gamebreaking, casual and bad design

A few thoughts:

As soon as I saw that mirror, I thought ugh, I don't want any part of that. I spent too much thought and effort to get my party the way I like it, I don't need no steenking respec. And even for exploiting purposes, it's too much hassle to keep going back and forth. Also, if you try out new builds with respec, you completely miss Act 1. I would want to see how the new build fares there as well.

OP I think I know where you are coming from. You want to min-max as much as possible within the confines of the rules and game system. But ask yourself, are the scenarios you presented something the devs had in mind/would encourage when they implemented this feature? Probably not - I dont think that was the intent. At this point, you might as well use console commands or cheat devices. My suggestion would be to employ some discipline and implement your own guidelines.

after much testing i actually now dont think thievery is broken, you only have access to a certain number of recruitable mercs including the base recruits that are also available on the start screen. not like there is a infinite amount of them and you can only steal once per char there is 14 recruits from serg Zrilla nothing more, that in my eyes means you can steal at times you need to and not abuse it to the point of a game breaking bug.

In SP it isn't really a problem, but yes in Co-Op it is a joke ...
even I am only playing with 2 personal friends, all Interactions are gone ... no need of a thief or diplomat or a lucky guy, respec and do all yourself it breaks the immersion ...

If it would cost some money, friends and even I would feel more that need of the other players ...

and also that you could respec your char to use a special item ruins that need to trade ...

SO YES FOR Co-Op it is TERRIBLE even gamebreaking, for single it is only immersion breaking ...

the only good thing is, I AM THE HOST and have a NPC in our game LOL !

SO PLEASE DEVS change it,
MP money for respec ...
SP should depend on playing settings, for normal also money , below no money and above even some magic items needed ...

I still don't get it. All three of you agree that that feature sucks because it makes you stop playing *together*? Yet you still use it to... what? not have to play together?

Are you sure that's actually a problem the game could/should solve and not one that you should tackle by yourselves? Like... by... agreeing not to use the mirror? How do you even RP as a group if you can't agree on such a basic (meta) thing?

Re: your edit, just logically, how would introducing a price for this feature change things? If you want to play together and not use the mirror, the price won't change a thing. If you don't want to play together... then the price won't change a thing either because you'll just pay the fee and do the same thing you've done before, i.e. not play together. At worst it'll just force you to save up a bit so you have enough funds not to have to play together.

*mind boggled*

I actually read this entire thread. I'm in-between shows to binge on Hulu. So as far as entertaining dramas go, this was like most of them. Good at the beginning, then escalating boredom until finally it's over.

So, from my filthy casual observations, the quote above was the best in the thread and pretty much sums this thread up.

Case closed. Cyka wins.

I have no problem with the respec. If you're 'cheating' by using it, you're likely already doing that with save-scumming, etc. We barely even use the thing because we're too busy out in the world playing, but I do like the option of being able to fix my mistakes every so often.

Notice that those who want to change it want to make the cost punative. Magic Items to use the Mirror? In a game with a relatively finite amount of items floating around?

Oh, and its not just the forums here, the steam side has a number of yahoos who rant and rave about this as well.

I can see placing a debuff where you can only use it every so often.

You shouldn't punish the majority because of something the minority is doing (save scum so you can know about persuasion checks, things like that).

As I said earlier, "bad design" is something that leaves the majority of the players unhappy. And the number of players speaking AGAINST the respec system is definitely not the majority.

Without respec you would have to restart the game from scratch every single time if you want to change something. Which by the way is something i've already done a bunch of times since you first need to be able to complete act1 and it's going to be a pita with a bad build.

On the contrary, i would like the respec to be available sooner. Getting through the same intro ship and island over and over gets a bit draining after a while.

And as someone else already said, if you don't like free respec -- don't use it.

I'm sure there will be mods that put respec in act 1 OR remove it completely. Seems simple enough to just put / remove the mirror somewhere in the world, or create an item that runs its scripting.

On that note, I really don't understand this logic:

> Hacking / modding the game, using cheat-codes, or even using 'easy' mechanics intended by the game is 'cheating'.

> Using exploits and cheese tactics like buying 1000 knockdown arrows / exploiting infinite turn, bad AI, broken builds and glitches is totally legit and fine.

> But not using optional aspects of a single-player, non-competitive RPG game you don't like is 'ruining my experience'.

If it's ruining your CO-OP just have a no-respec rule, and if your friends can't agree to that - find new friends!

And really, there is a fairly hunky gold cost for completely re-tooling your character. Skill-books and armor will set you back a good 40+ thousand in the late game to full re-tool someone from, say, a warrior to a rogue. Whereas being REQUIRED to have 22 wit to complete some quests and being sh*t out of luck because you couldn't have possibly known that first time around is, indeed, gamebreaking.

tl;dr:

Restraint is your friend if you don't like 100% optional game mechanics. Don't have restraint? Acquire it and don't ruin the game for everyone else.

just dont use it

If you're running a co-op game, you can feel free to put a disclaimer of what is accepted and what isn't accepted. It's your game, so its your rules. If people don't want to abide by your rules, then don't let them play in your game. It's really that simple.

As to single player ... there's nothing more that can be said. The majority seem happy with it and that's what matters at the end of the day.

Then don't respec in your games then. What others do in their games does not affect you.

"Just don't use it!" is a terrible argument. It completely ignores the fact that this 'feature' is in the game and that the overall design is impacted by it and, more importantly, the overall design of the rest of the game has to account for its implementation.

Free, instant respecs at any time is an incredibly powerful tool for players that has the following consequences:
-Civil Skill investments are trivialized immensely; this is especially evident in co-op play where players interactions and inter-reliance are significantly devalued.
-Equipment Requirements are an effective non-factor; you can always stat up into the minimum requirements of any equipment without consequence and minimum impact on your build.
-The Economy is broken immediately by the ability to maximize Lucky Find and Barter when utilized. (I actually believe the current economy is actually -counting- on you to do this with how much it is ballooned)
-Combat Encounters do not force players to adapt, the optimal strategy is always available. (This is especially apparent when utilizing the broken economy to outfit yourself at a significantly lower cost)
-Dialogue Checks suffer a similar subversion; any significant outcome can be assured through a quick trip to the character editor screen. (This allows players to accrue significantly more EXP and rewards)

It is of my opinion that character respecs should be available, but there does need to be a significant cost attached to them. The more openly available this option is, the less defining and meaningful character building becomes: With infinite retries and no penalty or cost, every build is meaningless until the point-of-no-return.

I'm still not seeing who these people are or why they need to have the game hold their hand to stop them spoiling it for themselves. I've yet to see anything that indicates this is anything more than a theoretical and rather subjective problem. I personally don't see the problem with locking it out of honour type modes if people would really it rather wasn't there, though perhaps easy for me to say as I don't play them, but for everyone else, "just don't use it" is just fine and better than some contrived restriction.

If they're going to do anything they should really concentrate on things that are actually exploits, though I'd say "just don't use it" applies there too.

Nope. It is a very valid argument. It really is that simple, just do not use it.



Nope. It hasn't impacted the design at all. Not at any time do I feel like I need to change my spec. If it was designed for the use of the free respec to respec for any situation, then I would have to feel like I need to change my spec often. So you are wrong.

So the argument: "Just don't use it" is the best argument.

The argument is not: "We really don't like the feature but we are stuck with, just don't use it.". It is "We like it and want to keep it, but if you don't like it, just don't use it."

So it is a trial to make the best from a situation we are comfortable and you are uncomfortable with.

It's not entirely dissimilar to me saying tactician difficulty is terrible and should be removed because I wouldn't enjoy it and it would spoil the game for unwary players. Or, alternatively, I could just not use it. Which actually seems to work just fine.

It works great. I play Classic, as an incompetent player, and often chuckle, however with deep compassion, about the problems broad to the public by enthusiastic Tactician players.

Yes I agree with this post. please devs change it. this game has to be more immersive because of difficulty.