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Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? #628510
09/10/17 02:27 AM
09/10/17 02:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 54
Florida
BoogieMan Offline OP
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BoogieMan  Offline OP
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Arx Spoilers!





I've not behaved as a villain. I've been focusing on quite the opposite. I've barely used source vampirism. Just on a few bodies of undead enemies, the animated statues in Lord Kemm's vault, to weaken Karon in combat(sewer), on the spirit of The Sallow Man, and on the spirits trapping Arhu. I also did it on Wendigo because she begged me to, to keep the God King from taking her. I've not betrayed people or killed innocents. Didn't perform any mercy killings either.

When I consumed Lord Kemm's essence I became a villain.

Why? He was a servant of the God King, torturing a man in his hidden basement. He's not an innocent or a good guy. I've gone out of my way to avoid using it and only on a few servants of the God King, and played at a handicap by missing out on lots of source use for rarely making use of source vampirism all for what? To be considered a villain when I barely used it even on bad guys?

More so, it's not like there are a lot of witnesses down in the secret chamber to report my "villainous" ways..


Last edited by BoogieMan; 09/10/17 02:28 AM.
Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #628522
09/10/17 03:21 AM
09/10/17 03:21 AM
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withpuppys Offline
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i never got the villian tag and i used source vampirism on a lot people, but i still got the hero tag

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: withpuppys] #628644
09/10/17 10:05 AM
09/10/17 10:05 AM
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BoogieMan Offline OP
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BoogieMan  Offline OP
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Well WTF. I'd think if you were to gain such a tag you should probably know why. It makes me feel like I have to play in a way I wouldn't otherwise because it feels like the game is treating behavior in a way that doesn't make sense.

Last edited by BoogieMan; 09/10/17 10:06 AM.
Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #628649
09/10/17 10:12 AM
09/10/17 10:12 AM
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The Emberheart Offline
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Did you attack someone, even if it's a badguy before battle had properly initiated? Sometimes doing sniper attacks on enemies or any other pre-emptive attack to draw first blood without being in turn-based combat mode can be seen as villainous behaviour by the game, basically because you're the aggressor and not the retaliator. A silly mechanic. Source vampirism may then be the push that happened to tilt the scales mayhaps.

Last edited by The Emberheart; 09/10/17 10:13 AM.
Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #628651
09/10/17 10:15 AM
09/10/17 10:15 AM
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Tommy123 Offline
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You get the Villian tag automatically by consuming ghosts with source vampirism via dialog ... don't know how many exactly. Using source vampirism directly on bodies seems to have no influence.

But this does not lock you out from the hero tag. You can have both.

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #628662
09/10/17 10:42 AM
09/10/17 10:42 AM
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CatR Offline
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Punishing the wicked does not make you just, baby Jesus is offended with you.
But for realsies though, in this universe being condemned to non-existence is pictured as one of the worst punishments possible. It's sort of like a combination of sending someone to hell and also killing them doubly up, because they don't get to come back like literally everyone else.
So the game is setting the precedent that you can do a lot of things to be a 'Villain' as a mortal, but to destroy a spirit is inherently "Villainous". I don't want to get into a deep ethics\moral philosophy discussion here, because I do that every tuesday and wednesday, hey-o, but I think it's fair to say that regardless of your opinion on the matter; the game is setting the bar saying 'This is the line you can not cross if you wish to be a good person'.

Which is fair, considering MASSIVE END-OF-THE-GAME SPOILER:
Click to reveal..
The Magisters, while trying their best to recreate the 'Evil' version of the Fourth Reich; according to the game both Lucian and Dallis not only condone it; they encourage it. For what the game presents as morally "good" reasons. Presuming you agree with them and go along with their plan the ending cinematic also affirms that; yes, this was really an okay thing to do. And I think you have to be a pretty fucking hardcore Utilitarian to say that genocide justifies prematurely ending a war by condemning the enemy to hell (the Void).


So basically the Magisters are "Villainous" but also "Good". You can even argue that the God King has a pretty good justification for his actions, if you just remove the taint of the Void from him he would probably be one of the most sympathetic causes in the game.
So DESPITE you having a pretty good argument for why Kemm's a big ol dirtbag and doesn't deserve any better because he is a villain, and you can argue that you are morally justified in ending his existence permanently, the GAME says that if you do that you are a Villain. Your willingness to destroy a spirit can be best represented, in-universe, as a willingness to dispose of ethics to achieve a good outcome. So in a way you can say 'Villain' just means 'Consequentialist with anger issues'.

The best comparison I can make at the top of my head is suicide in some religions, particularly in some Christian and Sikh sects; where the mere act of suicide is a sin that is worthy of sending you to hell. It doesn't matter if you have all the good reasons in the world to do it: you could be doing it to avoid your own suffering, to donate your organs to the more needy, to save your family; whatever. But if it is a sin it sends you to hell regardless, even IF it was a morally justified thing to do.
Destroying the Sallow Man's spirit might be morally justified, as he seemingly is never going to redeem himself and leaving that malevolent spirit intact will eventually harm more people. Regardless, the sin of destroying a spirit makes you the villain even THOUGH it lead to more good outcomes.

TL;DR- The game has set a series of moral principles, and you don't have to agree with them because, well, that'd be a bit simplistic. You can choose to follow these principles or not, and claim yourself moral or immoral accordingly, but the game will label you on how you follow ITS principles.

I'm with you, Kemm is a dirtbag; and arguably the Sallow Man is a force that should be permanently removed. Doesn't make it any less evil. At least not according to the game's internal moral evaluation.

Now a gif of a cat and a lizard because this textwall is horrific.



Trap Strats: DOS1:EE? Cheese - DOS2? Mashed potatoes - Proper nutrition is key to dungeon delving.
Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #628672
09/10/17 11:01 AM
09/10/17 11:01 AM
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Posts: 1,695
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Kalrakh Offline

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'Hero' and 'Villain' seems to be like a really cheap version of a karma system. But the worst is probably, that it seems pretty random, which action will cause to gain the tag and if I'm not mistaken, you can be both in the end, because gaining 'villain' won't make you lose 'hero'?

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: Kalrakh] #628931
09/10/17 07:48 PM
09/10/17 07:48 PM
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withpuppys Offline
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it is also random if you get the villain tag, it seems to be based of rng, because i murdered someone in game, and got it, but when i loaded a previous save right before it and did it again, i did not get the villain tag

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #629237
10/10/17 12:02 PM
10/10/17 12:02 PM
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IlluminaZero Offline
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Not really seeing the problem - Especially as you can apparently get both Hero and Villain tag. And especially as tags just give more dialogue options. Whats wrong with being a Dr. Doom style magnificent bastard? Historical figures like Nobunaga Oda denied such binary logic.

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #630065
12/10/17 04:22 AM
12/10/17 04:22 AM
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BoogieMan Offline OP
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It's more why vamping this evil guy who has turned his back on his family, his beliefs, his comrades, his city, his planet, and is torturing a guy in his hidden basement is considered the deed of a villain like killing innocents for giggles.

That's the part that made me raise an eyebrow.

Last edited by BoogieMan; 12/10/17 04:23 AM.
Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #630074
12/10/17 05:03 AM
12/10/17 05:03 AM
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withpuppys Offline
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i devoured pretty much every soul i saw, and i never got the villain trait, you might have encountered a glitch

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #630108
12/10/17 08:00 AM
12/10/17 08:00 AM
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fireundubh Offline
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According to the script, to get the Villain tag from Source Vampirism, you need to murder the NPC. Murder is murder.

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #630125
12/10/17 08:59 AM
12/10/17 08:59 AM
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Violet Gekko Offline
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You don't get blocked out to anything while getting villian tag. More is always better while you can get hero tag as soon as level 3!

Re: Gained Villain tag for source vamping a villain?? [Re: BoogieMan] #630485
13/10/17 10:31 AM
13/10/17 10:31 AM
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snoozler Offline
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And here I am doing everything I can to try get the villain tag.. I turned in stingtail, murdered migo and daughter after reuniting them, consumed Lord Withermoore's soul.. Still no villain tag. smirk

I wish I understood what exactly triggers it.. Seems totally random, as I've heard accounts of people getting it from just one of the above acts.


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