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Is this BG?! Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. #659445
28/02/20 04:18 PM
28/02/20 04:18 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Just watched a bit of the Dev gameplay with my husband this morning...
Let my tell you a bit about myself before I criticize this game for what it looks like so far.

I grew up on these games at an early age with my nana. We played diablo1 and the expansion and 2, BG1 and 2, Myst, starcraft and more together.
So naturally I was stoked to see BG3 is development!

And then I saw the gameplay... OH my...

It completely ignores my nostalgia button. nostalgia does not exsist at all from what hours iv'e seen of this game so far. zero.
And that's okay.
I think I understand that this game is geared to another groups of people.
I support them and the devs, the game looks great. And I'm sure, I hope... It's lore friendly to the BG series. As that would be the only bit of nostalgia I'd think about getting, if I desired to play this.

I wonder if all you 30ish year olds can understand what I feel? Look at the game if you've played days worth of BG back in the day and see this? Alien feeling right? Makes me feel completely alone.. Cold.. I'am sad. It hurts my heart and soul seeing this...

A bit off topic, but I mean. My Nana was my best friend of all time. We're PC nerds together and she was my peace away from a very violent and sad childhood... I'm actually going to stop mentioning it here, becasue It hurts way to much to think about it.. But pretty much. BG, Diablo was my soul and my connection to fun, happy times with the person I loved the most in my life, the person I felt most safe with.

And Then I see this. Ow. My feels....

`Nostalgia` ::: Gone.

I never really got into the Original Sin series.. I like it for what it was. New. innovative. Different. But I didn't get that connection I wanted. The game felt overwhelming.... Odd... I'm a huge gamer and nerd... and somehow this game made me feel like I couldn't enjoy it? I'm not 100% sure why.
I really liked Pillars of Eternity, Not the same Pub or Devs, And somewhat off topic again... sorry. But it felt more at home for me. I enjoyed playing it more for some reason.

Original sin... hmm. I can't place my finger on it. I've played the game for hours and hours and tried to find enjoyment. I can't. The turn base was along with the UI and looting system, was a turn off. The quests are great.

And then I see BG3 and was like.. Wow!
I play BG still with friends even though It's my umpteenth play-though.

BG3 looks great. however it captures way to much of original sin... Mixing BG and original sin made me want to look away from the gameplay in shame in disgusted fashion... Just calling BG3 doesn't feel right.
These are my pure feelings so don't get me wrong or argue with me or call me out, my feelings probably won't change and their my own.
Original sin players will most likely love this game. Me... Well. I can't say I will and I can't speak for others. This is nothing like BG from what I've seen so far other then a bit of lore and a bit of mechanics. Is it BG though? No. Just because it takes place off the Sword Coast and has the actual City of Baldur's Gate in the game... Does NOT make it feel like a BG game for me....

Sin was executed well and is pretty much on it's own overall, brings the genre to a new level.
I'll have to play it. I have to drag myself though the game to the end... hoping it's not a bitter one. I'll do it. and see if I can change my mind. I'll seek out the things my subconscious is hoping for. my kid in me and nostalgia will try to find something; it will right? I have to try, and I have to bring myself to the end.

I'am not looking forward to it...

***Other post I made here in case you didn't see it***
Oh, I just wanted to put my point of view on DnD. I never really played it. :\
I don't have an opinion on it and have no knowledge on it. I've played pathfinder, not much.
I see how they are the same in a way. But these are video games not pen and paper. It shouldn't be defined on "Core Rules" or "Versions" Of an ancient pen and paper table top...
I mean, if lots of peoples; including me, would say that these games should be different based off an old game. I can easily argue and say that BG can be new as well... BG can be NEW as well.. Let that sink in.

This is kinda not like BG. This is a look alike to sin. And it's not really New. The series is over 5 years old. and there has been multiple of the game, with the same looking stuff.
So "New" isn't really accurate as well. Calling it a new BG3 is also not really accurate.... It's stuck between two awkward states... I think it's not intentional here, but it's a reality, and that's why so many people here so two sided I bet.

If you would take BG and focus on making BG3 with BG actually in mind. It wouldn't be "New" as well. But at least you can call it BG3, look at it and say "Wow yeah this is BG3!"

Last edited by Morcaster; 28/02/20 08:26 PM.
Re: Is this BG?! Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659450
28/02/20 04:32 PM
28/02/20 04:32 PM
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WizardPus Offline
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Have you tried pathfinder kingmaker? Very similar to BG with the pathfinder ruleset. And check out Solasta Crown of the magister. It is full D&D 5e. Wish the demo was still available. It was awesome but still under dev. Sadly no co-OP in either.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659454
28/02/20 04:34 PM
28/02/20 04:34 PM
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Gmazca Offline
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I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've logged so many hours on the original Baldur's Gate games over the years and it's a series I always come back to. However, with two decades separating the original games from BG3, there is no doubt much would need to change.

I play D&D 5e, so I think I am handling the changes to the gameplay pretty well compared to those that might not play the table top game. What I saw from the demo was very accurate in regards to the table top experience, but not necessarily the BG2 experience. D&D has changed a lot since then, so it is no wonder BG3 would need to change too.

I debated on whether turn-based was the way to go for this game considering BG1 and BG2 were RTwP, but I think getting as close to D&D 5e as possible is the right call...however...others will disagree and that is perfectly valid.

Seeing D&D monsters, races, classes, spells, and lore will hopefully reignite the feeling you're looking for.

I think people see the graphics and turn-based combat and immediately think BG3 is Divinity Original Sin re-skinned. I think that is over-simplified. BG3, unlike Divinity, is a class-bassed system (as D&D should be). That alone is going to change how the game is played. I think it will offer a lot as far as replayability too.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659476
28/02/20 05:20 PM
28/02/20 05:20 PM
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Sordak Offline
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Ok.
Listen bruv.

Nothing can bring you back something that doenst exist.
Nostalgia is longing for an idealized version of the past.

You cannot feel nostalgia for a new thing.
When you feel Nostalgia for a new product, it is because you are beeing manipulated to buy something out of nostalgic feelings.
This is not a good thing.

Anyone who bought into the new Star Wars battlefront can tell you that, anyone that bought into the last Mass effect can tell you that.
Anyone that bought Skyrim for the 6th time hoping that htis time it would be Morrowind can tell you that.

Go back and play Baldurs Gate 2.
Nobody is taking it from you, play it i multiplayer, play a new build, try somehting new with it.

Maybe youll realize it wasnt actually as good as it is in your memory, nothing ever holds up to nostalgia.
Savor it for what it is


But dont bother me with it. I dont care
Your nostalgia isnt an argument

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659478
28/02/20 05:27 PM
28/02/20 05:27 PM
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ForlornHope Offline
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I have to say I agree with you, Morcaster. I saw nothing at all that made me think "Baldur's Gate." The feel is totally off. It's inevitable that technical aspects are going to change given the amount of time lapsed and I don't overly object to things like a turn-based system etc, but there seems to be absolutely no inspiration from the originals at play.

I'd love to play D:OS 3, but that's not that I want from this.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659480
28/02/20 05:31 PM
28/02/20 05:31 PM
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Solasta Crown of the Magister has refused mod support.


In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!
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Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659495
28/02/20 05:53 PM
28/02/20 05:53 PM
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mszcz Offline
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"You cannot feel nostalgia for a new thing."

What?
I felt it playing Dragon Age: Origins, I also felt it in POE 1 a bit in 2, but only cuz of setting.

Yes you can.
What i expected from BG3, was taking DAO/POE ideas to next level (some DAO-like finishers for example, new yet cool)

Last edited by mszcz; 28/02/20 05:53 PM.
Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659499
28/02/20 05:58 PM
28/02/20 05:58 PM
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Gmazca Offline
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I feel like BG3 is shaping up to be the spiritual successor of BG2 that DAO was trying to accomplish (and did well at the time).

BG2 is to 2nd Edition AD&D as BG3 is to 5th Edition. At least, that's how I see it.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Sordak] #659503
28/02/20 06:12 PM
28/02/20 06:12 PM
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Horrorscope Offline
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Originally Posted by Sordak
Anyone who bought into the new Star Wars battlefront can tell you that



The post work they are putting into BF2 is amazing, yesterdays drop was huge to. Maybe sometimes you can go back home.

What if the reimagine is more of Wizards of the Coast demands and finally starting to take advantage of what they have, synergies between table top and video game, learn either makes you able to play the other easily? This could very well be the best table top to video game translation ever for them and imo this should have happened regularly decades ago. But the name, the name is what gets a lot of people stuck on. Yeah perhaps this shouldn't be BG3 to lesson the blow to a group of players that can't get past names, because yes, without somethings to some people this can never be BG3.

I'm just onboard with Wizards of the Coast finally doing right (hopefully) in video games with their IP, it's been a tragedy overall, this game leave name out of it, will probably be the best translation ever at least in terms of mechanics.

Also ironically I right all of that and DDO is way way up there on fave games to have played and it wasn't table top DnD, it was RT DnD.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659506
28/02/20 06:16 PM
28/02/20 06:16 PM
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ZeshinX Offline
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This, for me at this stage, is just Baldur's Gate: Some Subtitle. It's got the '3' on the box, but it has little (or nothing) to do with what came before (only my opinion at this point, I'm by no means suggesting this as fact...absolutely not). I don't consider it part of the series and it will very much do and be it's own thing. The '3' on the box is merely there (in my opinion) to prey on the nostalgia many of us may have.

That said, my position could change as more is revealed. I suspect I'll be buying and playing this upon full release (I don't go near anything with 'early access' attached), as it does look like a fun D&D game in all other regards.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659507
28/02/20 06:17 PM
28/02/20 06:17 PM
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Sordak Offline
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ITs not Nostalgia if its a new thing.
And nostalgia shouldnt realy be the reason to like somehting.


Like things because they are good.

Nostalgia is free anyway , just play older games.

I still go and play morrowind every once in a while, meanwhile every other elderscrolls expansion focusing on morrowind is starting to get on my nerves

on WOTC getting their act together:
Well see, the other game they announced looks a bit lame.
As for a Tabletop / PC convergence, i dont want it.
Video games are video games and TTRPGs are TTRPGs, i like PC based character builders but at the end of the day, i wanna sit at my friends house, get out my notes, eat junkfood and play some DnD.

I dont need a Video game to emulate it for me, that would limit the things i can do

As for the poster above me.
Isnt that a good thing?

So its not a baldurs gate game for you. Thats fine.
does it look like a good game tho?
You can easly divorce these two things from one another.

Last edited by Sordak; 28/02/20 06:20 PM.
Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Sordak] #659519
28/02/20 06:29 PM
28/02/20 06:29 PM
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ForlornHope Offline
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Originally Posted by Sordak

So its not a baldurs gate game for you. Thats fine.
does it look like a good game tho?
You can easly divorce these two things from one another.


I don't think you can. Or at least, I can't.

I think the problem is, if you present a game as something new then it can be judged on its own merits freely. However, if you attempt to continue an established series then people will expect certain things from it, and if those things are not achieved then you engender a feeling of missed potential. That's what's hard to stomach.

Think of Mass Effect Andromeda. Taken on its own, might have been a fairly decent game. But if you put the words "Mass Effect" in the title, people start imagining what it could have been and that's very annoying. I don't want to sit here imagining what BG 3 could have been if developed in the right direction, I want it to realize that potential and fit in with the original basis as much as possible.

I admit it's unlikely you'll satisfy everyone because appeal, (and nostalgic appeal in particular) are very subjective, but I'm just talking in terms of "making it feel like we're not just playing Divinity" and that should be eminently achievable.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659523
28/02/20 06:34 PM
28/02/20 06:34 PM
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When I watched the video, my first impression was: this is a D&D themed Original Sin, but not BG3. At the very least I would have expected a user interface that harkens back to the look and feel of the old games, and not just a quick reskin of OS2.

Also, the parts that didn't look like Original Sin reminded me a lot of Dragon Age: Origins (i.e. the cinematic dialogue or the camp). These are actually bits where Original Sin would have been closer to the original, and I am somewhat worried that the depth of characters and companions that was conveyed though BGs writing cannot be reached when every bit of dialogue needs to be acted out and motion captured.

The thing that has me worried the least are the actual game mechanics. I only have a vague idea about all the changes since D&D 2nd edition, but what I've seen felt familiar enough, and I for one am actually happy that RTwP is no more.

But my initial impression still remains: this feels like Original Sin in a slightly different setting. Somewhat reminds me of Fallout 3, which felt like futuristic Elder Scrolls but had little in common with its predecessor outside the name. And it was a bad futuristic Elder Scrolls at that. At least that seems to be less of a concern with OS3 ... oops ... BG3.

So will I want to play this? Absolutely!

Will it feel like a true successor to BG2? Hardly.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Morcaster] #659527
28/02/20 06:45 PM
28/02/20 06:45 PM
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mszcz Offline
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Eh, you people focused on nostalgia...
It not only that, it just doesnt have nothing to do with BG series.

"... and it wasn't table top DnD, it was RT DnD."
Yes mate, your are completly right.

When playing a video game like bg i dont't want to see a huge 20k cube in a middle of a screen, it makes me feel like its a cheap mobile crap. What's next? Payable skins changes?
DOS have a lot of good ideas, the way stealing and party spreading works, elemental and environment combinations.

There was so much potential in this title to make it 100% perfect for all of us.

And once again, deffending the tilte that it was a DnD game, and BG was nothing like DnD suppose to be, means nothing.
Cuz BG 1/2 was BASED on DnD, not actual DnD game.

I understand a wink to paper RPG sension gamers, but its a "FU we will do it our way", wink to BG fans.

What i wanted to see was DA;O-ish next gen, with DOS/POE/Tyranny (spells creation was awesome in Tyranny) ideas.
I hate that they dont even consider letting us to choose between pause and turns like they did in POE.




Last edited by mszcz; 28/02/20 07:00 PM.
Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: WizardPus] #659563
28/02/20 07:40 PM
28/02/20 07:40 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Morcaster  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by WizardPus
Have you tried pathfinder kingmaker? Very similar to BG with the pathfinder ruleset. And check out Solasta Crown of the magister. It is full D&D 5e. Wish the demo was still available. It was awesome but still under dev. Sadly no co-OP in either.


Yeah I've looked at pathfinder. I'm thinking about getting it soon. The other one you mentioned is turn-based and I'm not all to interested in that. But I looks cool, I may try that out in the future.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Gmazca] #659564
28/02/20 07:44 PM
28/02/20 07:44 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Morcaster  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Gmazca
I can definitely see where you're coming from. I've logged so many hours on the original Baldur's Gate games over the years and it's a series I always come back to. However, with two decades separating the original games from BG3, there is no doubt much would need to change.

I play D&D 5e, so I think I am handling the changes to the gameplay pretty well compared to those that might not play the table top game. What I saw from the demo was very accurate in regards to the table top experience, but not necessarily the BG2 experience. D&D has changed a lot since then, so it is no wonder BG3 would need to change too.

I debated on whether turn-based was the way to go for this game considering BG1 and BG2 were RTwP, but I think getting as close to D&D 5e as possible is the right call...however...others will disagree and that is perfectly valid.

Seeing D&D monsters, races, classes, spells, and lore will hopefully reignite the feeling you're looking for.

I think people see the graphics and turn-based combat and immediately think BG3 is Divinity Original Sin re-skinned. I think that is over-simplified. BG3, unlike Divinity, is a class-bassed system (as D&D should be). That alone is going to change how the game is played. I think it will offer a lot as far as replayability too.


I agree with you. It feels too much like original sin and less like BG. Calling it BG just doesn't seem right. The change is not needed. but their just doing something that is kin to them, and I get that. If they tried to do something 100% new and straying away from how they build their games I'm sure it wouldn't be good. It's good they are keeping things tight.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Sordak] #659565
28/02/20 07:45 PM
28/02/20 07:45 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Morcaster  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sordak
Ok.
Listen bruv.

Nothing can bring you back something that doenst exist.
Nostalgia is longing for an idealized version of the past.

You cannot feel nostalgia for a new thing.
When you feel Nostalgia for a new product, it is because you are beeing manipulated to buy something out of nostalgic feelings.
This is not a good thing.

Anyone who bought into the new Star Wars battlefront can tell you that, anyone that bought into the last Mass effect can tell you that.
Anyone that bought Skyrim for the 6th time hoping that htis time it would be Morrowind can tell you that.

Go back and play Baldurs Gate 2.
Nobody is taking it from you, play it i multiplayer, play a new build, try somehting new with it.

Maybe youll realize it wasnt actually as good as it is in your memory, nothing ever holds up to nostalgia.
Savor it for what it is


But dont bother me with it. I dont care
Your nostalgia isnt an argument


Don't be a troll, trying to start up negativity. You're not bringing anything worth mentioning here. just go away.
Can someone ban this person from this thread please.

Last edited by Morcaster; 28/02/20 07:49 PM.
Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: ForlornHope] #659566
28/02/20 07:48 PM
28/02/20 07:48 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Morcaster  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ForlornHope
I have to say I agree with you, Morcaster. I saw nothing at all that made me think "Baldur's Gate." The feel is totally off. It's inevitable that technical aspects are going to change given the amount of time lapsed and I don't overly object to things like a turn-based system etc, but there seems to be absolutely no inspiration from the originals at play.

I'd love to play D:OS 3, but that's not that I want from this.


Right. This game looks amazing in it's own way. It's just that calling it BG feels wrong. Just because it takes place in the same area.... I'll have to try it and see how it goes. The turn-based gameplay is a huge turn-off however.

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: ZeshinX] #659567
28/02/20 07:51 PM
28/02/20 07:51 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Morcaster  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ZeshinX
This, for me at this stage, is just Baldur's Gate: Some Subtitle. It's got the '3' on the box, but it has little (or nothing) to do with what came before (only my opinion at this point, I'm by no means suggesting this as fact...absolutely not). I don't consider it part of the series and it will very much do and be it's own thing. The '3' on the box is merely there (in my opinion) to prey on the nostalgia many of us may have.

That said, my position could change as more is revealed. I suspect I'll be buying and playing this upon full release (I don't go near anything with 'early access' attached), as it does look like a fun D&D game in all other regards.


I'm glad your open to changing your mind. I feel the same way, I just try not to be as aggressive as you state; I do feel like attacking...

Re: Oh boy I have so many mixed feelings. [Re: Sordak] #659568
28/02/20 07:53 PM
28/02/20 07:53 PM
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Morcaster Offline OP
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Morcaster  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sordak
ITs not Nostalgia if its a new thing.
And nostalgia shouldnt realy be the reason to like somehting.


Like things because they are good.

Nostalgia is free anyway , just play older games.

I still go and play morrowind every once in a while, meanwhile every other elderscrolls expansion focusing on morrowind is starting to get on my nerves

on WOTC getting their act together:
Well see, the other game they announced looks a bit lame.
As for a Tabletop / PC convergence, i dont want it.
Video games are video games and TTRPGs are TTRPGs, i like PC based character builders but at the end of the day, i wanna sit at my friends house, get out my notes, eat junkfood and play some DnD.

I dont need a Video game to emulate it for me, that would limit the things i can do

As for the poster above me.
Isnt that a good thing?

So its not a baldurs gate game for you. Thats fine.
does it look like a good game tho?
You can easly divorce these two things from one another.

Pretty much just repeating what has been said before you. As for nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.
So yes, nostalgia is a reason and can be and should be if you like something. Them adding a "3" as has been stated by ZeshinX, It plays with you to and lures you in. It doesn't sounds like you'd understand.

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