Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Throwing grenades upwards & climbing ladders

There are two severe issues I have with the current combat system, which are familiar to me from XCOM and were already present in DOS2:

(1) I'm in the windmill in the abandoned village about 10 meters higher than the Goblins below me. One of them - repeatedly - tosses alchemist's fire or other kinds of grenades all the way up to me which of course doesn't bounce off but explodes right on target. Have you any idea how difficult such a feat is in real life?
(2) Same situation. A Goblin from below climbs the entire ladder (Which should at least take a turn), walks up to my characters and attacks. Apparently, moving in z direction doesn't take movement at all?
(3) I'm on one of the wooden beams in the Goblin's hideout, right above one of the bosses (That's maybe 20 meters height). One of the Goblins below tosses some kind of alchemists fire/something similar all the way up to the wooden beam where it doesn't bounce of but explodes right on target.
(4) Another Goblin climbs a ladder on the left - which is at least 20 meters high! - does all of that apparently without loosing movement or his turn, walks directly past a character I posted just above the ladder to block the way and attacks! How the hell would that even work? You can't climb up a ladder if someone with a sword is standing above you and swings at you!

-> moving in z direction should take movement. And throwing grenades 10 meters upwards should fail in most cases.

Agreed on most counts.

The difference between D&D "grenades" and XCOM/modern grenades is that the former are typically glass flasks, for which it's reasonable to shatter on contact instead of bouncing. Now, of course this is a separate issue from being able to throw an object 10-20+ meters upward. 5e RAW says the range of Alchemist Fire Flask is 20 feet, which is much more reasonable (when accuracy matters).

Strong +1 that climbing ladders should require movement. One of the main benefits of high ground should be that it takes a while for enemies to reach you. My Misty Step shouldn't be countered by your ability to essentially teleport up a ladder. I'd be fine if ladders costed normal movement, but would prefer if they (and all climbing surfaces) took double movement. And if you don't make it up, you end your turn on the ladder.

You should also be able to block ladders, either by standing at the top or the bottom of them. The enemy would have to shove you to get past. That'd introduce some cool tactics.

I agree that climbing ladders should consume movement.

Goblins tossing vials up to the rafters also feels weird to me, but for a different reason than the OP’s. It’s an incredibly difficult shot. The target is far away and standing on a narrow platform. Yet, if the goblins miss their shot, they miss by an inch. If the vial doesn’t directly hit the target, it will always land at its feet. Goblins never over or undershoot. No air balls. No vial ever comes crashing back down on their befuddled faces.

Goblins must have a killer basketball league.

Dark Side of the Force leads to many abilities that some might concider unnatural ...

Anyway ...
I gues the problem here is that Z axis dont exist at all in this game. :-/

As was mentioned in the past:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthread...;Words=Z+axis&Search=true#Post781860
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthread...;Words=Z+axis&Search=true#Post771530

It's probably hard to implement staying halfway on the ladder. So I guess it would be fine if you could climb 20+ meter ladders in a single turn but IMHO then at least your turn should be finished.

Another possibility would be to make climbing ladders a full action. So that you at least lose your attack for one turn.

Ah, then I'm not the only one who noticed that.

I accept that XCOM and DOS2 didn't take z movement into account either. But that sometimes resulted in hilarious ways of movement - you did not run around a building (20 meters) but instead climbed 10 meters upwards, another 10 meters upwards, walked 5 meters across the roof of a building, and then climbed 20 meters downwards - all the while loosing less movement ^^

But I guess finishing the game is more important than addressing such minor nitpicks.

I mean, maybe? I don't think either you or I really know how difficult it'd be. Obviously it's more complicated than simply pausing a ladder-climbing animation halfway through, but how much so? Idk.

Your movement (not turn) ending after climbing a too-tall ladder would be a fine solution though. As long as your characters were more than 5 feet from the top of the ladder, they'd then be safe from melee attacks. And/or maybe you're not allowed to climb a ladder if you don't have enough movement, thus possibly requiring you to dash?

I generally don't like modifying the action economy in 5e without good reason, and "we didn't feel like putting in the effort to make climbing cost movement or implement another better solution" isn't a good reason. That said, a full action sounds too costly so a bonus action cost might be better? Since Shove is a BA, this would prevent cheese where you climb a ladder and shove an enemy off.