Larian Studios Forums Divinity II The Dragon Knight Saga / Flames of Vengeance (English) Divinity II - Flames of Vengeance Things you'd like to see in Divinity III?

This is what I'd like to see on the next installment:

Rhode's status - I don't like her being a statue and she was blind by her false justice. Now that rivellon was saved by those who she tried to kill. what will happen to her ideals now? Will she realize that what she was doing was wrong and turn over a new leaf? or, will she still make the dragon knight extinct? I hope she at least appears on the next installment as a quest giver or someone of importance or at least a reading material about her .

Mini-games - A puzzle game or some reflex game or some card game like poker. The game mechanics will be explained in the game of course. At least, there's something that the gamer will put their minds else where. There could be a tournament of some sorts or quest related or a means to get some powerful items. I remember the days of gold saucer of final fantasy seven hehe.

Romance or relationship development - By this suggestion, you could also add some love rivals or love consequences on the end game scenario. I'm fond of this feature. I found this on the two games(witcher/Dragon Age) that are essential for character development. There's also the intimate scene of it but I believe Larian isn't going to implement this scenes. If you remember the bone that transformed into a human, you will notice that he transformed with a brief haha although he did say he was naked xD.

Mind reading - less the xp debt.

Hunting we shall go - I would suggest powerful mobs that require actual tactics. Its usual in my game that I use brute force against them.

More "plays" - I like the quest in the playhouse. You could summon a real demon from acting! haha.

Keys - Don't count them as an inventory. I couldn't find the reason why you should throw an epic armor for a key that use up your inventory.

Battle tower companions - If the game is a story related dragon knight, I want some of my companion as an "extra". You know, for the sake of aesthetic or some non-value added dude that won't make your character stronger. Its like the hairstylist who came out of nowhere. You could get some ideas though from suikoden game .

Good ending - The ED was awful when it ended bad. It was 5 months after that I planned to buy DKS and finish it once and for all. It was satisfying enough that FoV tried to evade such ending by putting TWO endings. The player could actually change the fate of his game!

Save game continuation - Carry over the items please . Although, it will destroy the freshness of the game so ignore this suggestion.

A pre-made story - Self-explanatory. If larian got the resources though I could suggest:

Two starting story line - The ending of FoV has a fork, one where you could destroy the invading forces with bellegar's magic or the other one (I haven't tried the other one yet so I don't know if its a really BAD ending). Naturally, the starting point of your story must have at least two. and,

Carry over saves for story line or some quest related or some additional features - I don't quite get this system yet from witcher or from Dragon age as I haven't finished their sequels yet. What I like to see on this system is the status of those quests you finished from those previous saves to the next game. At least, new gamers who try the next game will be obliged to buy the old one for the sake completion.

Side quest consequences - It is already implemented on DKS. Like the masses commenting on the heroism against the flying fortresses. I'd like for it to stay on the next installment.

Amdusias - MAXXXXOSS!! hahaha

Fresh new start - Play the divine = the people will worship whatever ground you walk on. Play the Dragon Knight = The game could be a cakewalk. Newly recruit = A lot of potential. Of course, there is a great story line from those former two. A pre-made items and stat could cure the OP.

Simeon or philosopher - He did say that after 80 years he will write his memoir.

This list isn't exhaustible. I still have a lot in my mind. I could add some next time I visit this forums.

Keys and quest related items in Divinity 2 do not count towards the inventory limit.

Divinity 3 will have a top down camera view (no details on the implementation), so that very likely means the main character will not be a dragon knight.

Hm, I don't like this too much, actually.
My reason is simply that not everyone is able to do tactics in real-time.

I must admit that the Divinity games rather attract action-RPG lovers, but me, for example, I'm not one of that (okay, not that I count much, lol), personally I prefer combat like in FOV, although I was never quite able to beat the most dangerous mobs there.

My reason is simple : I'm not a power gamer. I just don't do much of optimizing the character I play.
Me, I'm rather focused on story than on combat, but that is something - I must admit - that is difficult within the Action-RPG sub-genre anyway.

I'm currently playing my absolutely favourite game again : Drakensang 2. And power-gaming just ruins your experience there. It just destroys everything. And playing it like an action game very much also.
But there are also a few - for me, personally - *very* difficult adversaries there. And I like it that way. Few, but difficult. No mobs.
And the game also allows pause within combat. Okay, Divinity 2 allows this as well, but I didn't use it that often.

Enough babbling : What I'd be fine with is that there are strong mobs - which become stronger the higher the difficulty level of the game is (chosen by you).

And the rest of this list is something I can agree to.

I just want more quiet role-playing games with fewer action (and combat) and much more social interaction - but that wouldn't sell, I fear (what are the numbers for the Medieval SIMs ?).

I didn't notice about those keys haha.

If its going to be a top down, then I do hope we can play as the divine =) and finish damian once and for all. But then again, if damian is finished, there wouldn't be any divinity series anymore unless there's a plot twist xD and that involves the spirit within damian.



I do agree at some of your points but that's why it's a side quest (hunting we shall go). It isn't meant to be a part of the story. Just another quest or easter eggs for those hardcore gamers/perfectionists like me xD (very much like the killer bunny. It sure scared the hell out of me when he appeared). I'm an avid gamer but I prefer the gameplay and the story more than other things. I did enjoy playing medieval sims but after actually playing each class it got repetitive and I stopped playing. I actually prefer games with strategy on them (RTS, TBS, or both). I played the first C&C when I was a little kid and ever since then, I've loved them. I could very well say that I will love the one larian studios will release (dragon commander).

For this matter, Barbatos is near to what I'm actually looking. To elaborate, its more like the shadow of the colossus game wherein the enemy has weak points/body parts and the player needed to kill each of them so that the enemy could actually be slain. And, those weak points/body parts can function independently on its own (ie. one hand is healing, one hand is casting unlimited magic, the head is charging up its eyes for a near death attack at you, and etc. Final fantasy 7 final boss battle can come into mind). A big demon could be a great example of this. Then again, raze did point out that the next installment would be a top-down one. So, this suggestion could be meaningless and I'm just asking too much lol. I remember though, playing a baldur gate game on game boy that this was implemented on a top-down one and it was implemented badly. The body parts of the enemy are running rampant apart from each other xD.

@AlrikFassbauer and other people who don't like too much fast actions in rpg's :

I must agree that many rpg's are too much focused on ACTION .. but to be honest I never disliked the actions in the Divinity games !

But to say this :
If you don't like too much action, play as a "Priest" and specialize in Summonning things like Summon Ghost/Undead/Demon & your Creature ! And use Charm and Hide in Shadows and let your summonned friends do the most of the dirty job (heavy battles) you do not like that much
And also important : always care for having a Bow with you ! Invest in Poison Arrows and/or Stun Arrows to slow down enemies and take later on Explosive and/or Splittings Arrows ... so you can end the battle before it even start ! It's fun and make fast work of battles .

This is my plan for my next hero(ïn) in DKS ! Me too don't like too much (fast) battles in a RPG ... in DKS I find now my own most appropriate strategy . And of course the FoV part I like very much because of less action and more of the other rpg elements : )

As a side-quest I'm fine with it. My worries were directed against *all* mobs within the game being there (numerous, especially) and being very difficult.

So I misunderstood things, it seems to me.

i dont know if anyones said it already or not, but i think the ability to both fly through the air as a dragon like you can now.. AND to take that thing down to the ground and destroy every enemy in sight. that would make me a happy camper for sure:)

Yeah, it's been a topic discussed by a few people but with Divinity 3 being a top down isometric view game it's not likley that will happen. You probably won't even play as a dragon knight. However, in Dragon Commander it looks like we will be able to do exactly what you are wanting.

A strict enemy level system that correlates with the PC.

I just started a new game on nightmare for the Ego Draconis part (DKS). I explored the Orobas Fjords too early. When I got back to first meeting Lovis, I was already level 21. There were odd things I noticed. Magic users seem to run out of "magic" and there are points when they would just run away (some imps I came across on the Fjords). This happened when I was power leveling there.

Are the enemies strictly customized? I'm not sure but as a level 21 going back to Broken Valley with assortments of level 8 - 14, the level ranking seems inconsistent at points. One may argue that freeform character development may have something to do with this but games like Neverwinter Nights has a reliable Challenge Rating which remains consistent all throughout.

J747L:

I'd like to bring up a counterpoint. At least for me, it somewhat breaks immersion if every enemy is always levelled up to be the same as I am. I expect to encounter some enemies weaker than I, and some stronger than I am (at least, at the moment). But, at the same time, not too much weaker, or so much stronger I insta-die from them looking at me. Of course, a good levelling system can incorporate that by having a range of enemy levels spawned, roughly centered on your level, maybe +/- 5 levels or so.

no problem. However what I was pointing out wasn't a leveled environment.

The problem I had was that the levels 8 - 14 vs my level 21 were inconsistent. There were level 14s that behaved like level 16+ and there are level 14s (changed: sorry not 16 but 14) that behaved like level 10 below. I'm really not sure but it's just the impression I encountered when I went back to broken valley with my level 21 and also to the Sentinel Island.

I understand what you mean even with Oblivion, there were mods that prevented the levelled environment (IIRC Francesco's leveled quests and items).

What I mean by a strict enemy level system, most of the time when a high level player faces enemies 5 levels below and 5 levels above, the relative challenge rating will feel almost consistent.

(added for clarity: consistent meaning, 5 levels below must feel easier to kill than an enemy 2 levels below. 5 Levels above feels harder to kill than enemy 3 levels above. Thus easiest (5 levels below), easier (3 levels below)... just right (equal level)... hard (3 levels above), harder (5 levels above)... something like that.

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Added for clarity:
My suspicion is that Larian is customizing the enemy in a different way from other RPG games. If a representative refutes this then I rest my case and I'll gladly accept that I'm wrong.

Enemy creation:
There are different ways one can create enemies in a given level. One is, a level designer picks a creature then gives it stats, abilities, equipment and then designates it Level 14. This can give rise to cases where a creature doesn't meet the standard of the equipment or ability but is given it anyhow.

Illustration: Imagine IIRC the explosive arrows require level 15, however for design purposes a level designer MIGHT venture, "Let's give these Level 14 skeletons explosive arrows anyway."

An obvious strict system for enemy leveling can be seen in Neverwinter Nights series, you cannot equip a creature spells, items unless the creature has the intelligence, level stats to satisfy them. Therefore from the example above, the system will not allow any creature designated as Level 14 to have explosive arrows.

I'm being suspicious here without hard evidence but I felt that Divinity II creatures are "extremely" customized which I suspect is the reason why there are unexpected spikes in the difficulty.

Again I'm willing to accept that my suspicions are false if one can assure me that they're not doing such.

J747L:

Oh, I see what you are saying. Personally, I don't mind a little bit of customization. My experience playing the game is that, for a particular *type* of enemy, at a particular level, there is consistency. That is, most level X Goblin Soldiers are pretty much the same. They seem to do the "customization" you refer to based on the type of the critter. Goblin leuitenants or chiefs, I don't remember what they are called, are more powerful, at the same level, as the normal soldiers. Same for shamans, healers, etc. Beholders are a lot more powerful (not that they necessarily do a lot of damage, but they might have fireball, and they might have more hitpoints, resistance, and maybe a healing spell).

Black Ring soldiers and rangers are a lot tougher, at the same level, than goblins or skeletons, etc.

I don't think, except for a few exceptions ("Named" enemies) that they ever really customize the enemies on an individual basis. They probably, I suspect, just have a basic template for each type, and probably use some code to automatically scale equipment level, powers, etc. Perhaps the code has something like a semi-random inventory spawn (so maybe occasionally certain enemies will randomly spawn with a healing potion to heal themselves, etc).

At least, if I were designing a game with 5000 enemies (I don't really know for sure how many there are in Ego Draconis, but man, it sure *feels* like there's 5000 enemies), I wouldn't hand-craft all of them. That's time I could spend more productively on other aspects of the game, and let the computer generate. The actual *locations* of spawns, I think, are static, but with a good game-editor system, a level designer could basically just point-and-click to place a spawn of skeletons here, and another spawn of skeletons over there (maybe choosing the level of the group), choose a spawn of black ring fighters and click, click, click to place them around, etc.

Exactly. This went on to the point that when my character entered the Orobas Fjords at level 10 or 11, I felt that fighting a level 18 goblin felt the same as fighting a level 14 black ring. So naturally I preyed on the level 18 goblins, swam to the other side and cleaned up the mine. When there's nothing left I was at level 21. Looking back this felt quite wrong.

I'll be blunt: I'm accusing Larian of making enemy templates that doesn't obey a level progression. In other words, the enemy creation system (even at the minion level) doesn't have limiting rules that the player is subject to. Again if someone points that I'm wrong then I'll gladly accept that this is not so.

If Larian already has an automated enemy system that governs their templates then I'm afraid to shift the argument there since it will appear that the gameplay problem is worse... a lot worse.

The system I'm describing is not new and was even implemented by Blizzard in Warcraft III (years ago) to the extreme. IIRC there, one can pick a level for an enemy template and the stats automatically follow (everything, even the health regen, resistances). They were able to do this because of the existing "enemy level system" I'm talking about. I think that customized bosses is also a given.

IMO the enemy creation system that I described above will prevent the unexpected spikes in the difficulty. Not because I invented it (cause I didn't) but because it is done in Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and by Blizzard among others. If you look at their users there is not much issue about difficulty spikes compared to the forums here.

I'm not picking a fight with larian

The only reason why I'm spending this MUCH TIME posting here and suggesting improvements is because I feel that Divinity II is supposed to be a great game.

There are a few scattered threads in the forums about members getting frustrated with the unexpected spikes in difficulty. They seemed a few but don't underestimate them, there are probably hundreds in the background that just quit the game and didn't even bother to post here.

As for me personally, I didn't have much problem with the spikes in difficulty even in (nightmare). But I do feel sad for the cases I read in the forums and wonder: is this the reason why this game isn't the blockbuster I think it should be?

Sorry, I can't fully agree ... For me it always is a big difference to fight a level 10 or 11 enemy in Broken Valley or a Goblin level 18 at the Orobas Fjords ! :o
For me : I like it when there're difficulty spikes ! With this it's more exciting to go for battle, "Save often, you never know what's around the bend" - one of the hints you can read in a loadingscreen

And btw, a Goblin Chief in Broken Valley is NOT of the same level! He's level 4 and the other Goblins are level 2, maybe some of them are level 3 (a Healer or a Mage). Also the Beholders are at least 1 or 2 levels higher than the other Goblins in the same group of enemies.

Divinity II is supposed to be a great game ?
Ooo no ! Divinity IS a great game !! And in my opinion it's better than great, it's a Masterpiece, a Pearl, a Gem !

If not, Larian wouldn't selling so much so they can now publish their own next games !

But further on no offence at all .. just my opinion and to be honest, I am only a gamer and I know nothing about making a game !
I like the system Larian used for the enemies and all that is in their games. I love it that non of their games are perfect ... The devs of Larian don't neglet to work hard .... sweat & tears are flowing in a river quiet ... with as result a lovely game that has a Soul with all the Love of the Team that's pumping into this game & in all their games .

But I know the devs read on the forum and are mostly happy to read ALL kind of comments about their games, it's a learning curve, like it always is when creating a project ... it's try and error all the time ...

So Lucreel, J747L and so much more ... it's good you did the effort to write your comments down here !

I'm a bit tired this week. Everyone has different opinions and I'll just leave my previous post as that. It's a bit strenuous to keep clarifying things (added for clarity... over and over). I'm tempted to do that again but it's just too much.

Even though I don't think this is a "Great" game I respect Joram, the rest and Larian for the job they did.

BTW for me, Divine Divinity is a Great Game
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I also recognize that this is not a simple solution and going into the direction of what I'm suggesting might destroy the franchise (this is the reason why I'm not a Creative Director lol). I'll just stop now . Example: A bit obvious, from a marketing perspective another massive change in gameplay might alienate the long time loyal followers. (who's willing to risk it? who's head is on the table? I don't want mine there.)