Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Two handers and Warfare are overpowered like hell

The amount of damage two handers and warfare skills do is crazy and trivialises the game (dualwield close second).

General suggestions:
-Reduce 2h damage by like 20%
-Dualwield and 2h increase AP cost of skills that use weapon damage by 1
-Warfare skills that are aoe and apply status effects should have a negative damage modifier instead of the extremely high positive they do now. E.g. crippling strike/battering ram should do like 80% weapon damage. The fact that they have AOE, extra damage, low AP cost, apply status effects and in case of battering ram are great for mobility is ridiculous.
-Rage is ridiculous, suggest dropping that 100% crit chance to like 30% max (or maybe double your existing crit chance instead so that crit chance does not become irrelevant).

Otherwise all supposed tactical depth is nullified by oneshotting everything on sight.

pretty much spot on, on all accounts.

Although I agree that Two-Handed Warrior is strong and there should be some adjustments. This would be way too punishing.

Well, 2h auto attack does cost +1 AP compared to 1h auto (and is relatively balanced, with best 2h weapons doing over 2x damage of one hand weapons).

So +1 AP on skills would be only natural. In fact, if 2h weapons do 2x of 1h damage then 2 AP skills would still do 33% more damage per AP and 3 AP skills would do 66% more damage. This reduces utility of the 2h however, since 1h can use more skills and do more CC/movement.

Alternatively, reduce the 2h and dualwield auto attack to 1 AP (just as 1h), but make them only do maybe 30% more damage than 1h (straight up nerfing 2h damage and reducing offhand damage for dw). Dealing 30% more damage with auto attack/skills would be a fair trade for a shield. Dealing 100-150% more damage with all skills at same AP cost is certainly not.

There are no 3 AP skills -- the most likely reason? It would be clunky with the 4 AP base system. Now, if you're talking about the 1 AP Warfare skills -- I could see some change in that. But in that case let's not forget about the 1 AP Teleport, Hail Strike, Winter Blast, and whatever else exists.

I'll say again, I agree with some of your points like scaling back the damage of certain skills or reducing the critical strike chance provided by Rage, but attacking a 2-Handed Warrior's AP is not a casual change. A Two-Handed Warrior is a fighter that gives up the the luxury of being range and having amazing defensive stats like their shielded counterpart so that they can be a wrecking ball in the battlefield -- let's not take that identity from them.

Actually, Fireball costs 3 AP. Just sayin.'

There are 3 AP "ultimate" skills like Onslaught which are utterly ridiculous with 2h.

Extra defensive stats of 1h are not "amazing", they are not worth having over two times less damage with skills (and autoattack too if you use shield for said defensive stats). As I said, I could see 2h/dw doing maybe 30% more damage per AP over 1h with skills/auto for a fair tradeoff with survivability.

Hail Strike is OP for 1 AP too, but it's a different topic.

Onslaught is a source skill, of course it's strong. And by the way it costs 2 AP not 3 AP -- there are no 3 AP cost skills.

I won't debate you on "amazing defensive stats" since it is subjective -- I was just trying to illustrate having a shield could be the difference between life and death (or being crowd controlled).

*I went in game to actually check.
3 - AP Cost: Fireball and Infect
4 - AP Cost: Snipe and Chain Lightning

It also depends on the quality of the offhand shield. Were my 1H warrior with a shield worth 72 armor points, +2 str, + 10% fire resistance and +0,5 meters of movement to face, let's say, alexander in a 1-on-1 fight, my 1H warrior would win thanks to overpower (more physical armor), rage, battle stomp and bull rush to keep his opponent permanently stunlocked, and this is despite alexander's monstrous damage. Frankly, I don't really believe that imposing 1 extra AP point cost to 2H warriors skills would be a fair way of balancing things.

Nerfing the damage output of cripple, bull rush, and rage, on the other hand....

Says 3 AP for me in the game. And oneshotting everything isn't strong, it's broken. More so with dw/2h when you do 2x or more damage compared to 1h.

There's no way in hell a mediocre physical armour bonus is worth halving your damage.

Maybe no warfare 3 AP skills...

Ya I end up checking -- I was actually surprised at a couple of them -- fireball!?!

How about setting the damage multiplier of a 2h to 1.5 instead of 2, and of the offhand weapon to 0.5 instead of 1? After all, one arm is bound to be weaker than the other...

I feel like we are talking in circles -- the damage of Two-Handed Warrior is insane, I don't think there is a single person that would contest that. I just said that of the suggestions that you purposed, increasing AP would have more punishing implications than you might think.

Believe me, I do understand the implications.

Alternative way would be to make dw/2h do roughly 50% more damage than 1h like GrumpyMcGrump suggested (still might be too much I feel).

This way 1h with no shield would have the best auto attack, 1h+shield best survivability, 2h best skill damage. Still feel like 50% more skill damage is the best option out of 3 tbh.

Plus nerf damage output of crippling strike, bull rush and rage on top of this of course.

Truthfully, what really bothers me aren't really 2H equipped warriors, but rather 2 wielders. They have the potential to be even more devastating than the 2H, why?

Let's make an example:

Warior A: 2h Weapon, deals 112-136 damage per hit.
Warrior B: Dual wielder. Main hand: 72-84 damage. Off hand: 64-78.

The dual wielder can whack even more than the 2h; even assuming minimum damage, it's 72 + 64 = 136 vs the 2h's 112 minimum damage. Now, I'm fully aware this is purely hypothetical, but I've already stumbled upon quite a few powerful 1 h purple-tiered weapons in previous playthroughs, and their damage output combined surpassed the damage output of my warrior's 2h axe (something along the lines of 120-130 iirc). And let's not even mention what could happen were both weapons to possess a crowd control chance on hit (like, say, 15% chance on hit to set stunned and 15% on hit to set blinded, which means that per successful attack you get 30% chance to CC your target). The real "weakness" with 2 wielders is that they have to make two separate attack rolls, but with high enough stats that's hardly an issue.

To piggyback on Dual-Wielding -- the stats they provide should be considered. There are also Tormented Souls and Elemental Essences in the game (granted you can't craft with them yet).

I contest that! I contest everything everyone has said in this thread and in every other thread on this forum and on every other internet forum ever since the beginning of time! :3

Don't mind me, just passing through.

No, overkill if all your other suggestions take place.



This is sensible.



Skills should never have negative damage modifiers, mage spells don't deal less damage than wand attacks, archer skills don't deal less damage than arrow shots. Increasing the AP cost is enough in this case.



This is the main problem, and yes Rage should be toned down.