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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2016
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An initiative roll would be just as easy. And it solves the issue through the simple fact that bias rolls are a thing. The current issue is that initiative on AI is just so high that putting points into iniative doesn't feel rewarding unless you really put some effort into it.
This effect than extends over time as enemy iniative grows over the course of the game with level and gear.
Whether someone puts 10 points into initiative or 5, there should be a noticeable change in game play. Things don't currently work that way.
Law of averages dictates that initiative roll would present that change presentably. It would change how often one goes last or first or land in-between.
Also, there's no such thing as truly random. It'd be pseudo random at best technically. We were discussing how bias the rolls should be and to whom.
That's one algorithm function call to assign initiative roll value with one call from combat start passing in the initiative stat fir each character on the screen. Can't get much more simple than that
Not that your way couldn't work but i;m not a fan of it.
EDIT:
Hell, adding the algorithm would change game experience without needing to touch initiative values anywhere else
None of what you said is decidedly wrong, it just doesn't address the issue, and if we're being serious the issue has nothing to do with the enemy initiative being too high, but instead has more to do with the stat system for PCs being utterly broken leading to players having to scrounge initiative wherever they can get it. A roll only has any effect on the user experience in the short term, over a long period the system would still prove to be broken with a few small instances of it actually paying off. As I said, they are unrelated issues.
Chaotic neutral, not chaotic stupid.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2016
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An initiative roll would be just as easy. And it solves the issue through the simple fact that bias rolls are a thing. The current issue is that initiative on AI is just so high that putting points into iniative doesn't feel rewarding unless you really put some effort into it.
This effect than extends over time as enemy iniative grows over the course of the game with level and gear.
Whether someone puts 10 points into initiative or 5, there should be a noticeable change in game play. Things don't currently work that way.
Law of averages dictates that initiative roll would present that change presentably. It would change how often one goes last or first or land in-between.
Also, there's no such thing as truly random. It'd be pseudo random at best technically. We were discussing how bias the rolls should be and to whom.
That's one algorithm function call to assign initiative roll value with one call from combat start passing in the initiative stat fir each character on the screen. Can't get much more simple than that
Not that your way couldn't work but i;m not a fan of it.
EDIT:
Hell, adding the algorithm would change game experience without needing to touch initiative values anywhere else
None of what you said is decidedly wrong, it just doesn't address the issue, and if we're being serious the issue has nothing to do with the enemy initiative being too high, but instead has more to do with the stat system for PCs being utterly broken leading to players having to scrounge initiative wherever they can get it. A roll only has any effect on the user experience in the short term, over a long period the system would still prove to be broken with a few small instances of it actually paying off. As I said, they are unrelated issues. As you said. The problem would only grow with time cause if the stat system being broken. To the point, that the iniative stat bonus AI gets on rolls would heavily out weight any bias we gave a PC. I don't feel this invalidates the roll idea per se, but it wouldn't hurt for when the system is fixed. Which should be a priority, of course. This is more a symptomatic solutions ACT 1 but it could just as easily be incorporated in the final version
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
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Hi. I've played a bit of scoundrel, and I found pretty much every enemy to go before me in the first four levels I played. I wrote 3 phrases explaining my problem below, and below that, I put my suggestion.
Experience/problem:
The fact that every enemy acted first was sort of irritating, especially, when I initiated a fight from stealth.
I am 'surprising' my opponent with a stab to the back, and then their entire group gets to act first. It feels horrible.
I'm a relatively squishy character, in the midst of a group of enemies on classic, and the first thing they do is damage me and cc me. It feels bad backstabbing someone, only to have that be my only option.
In fact, it was so bad, that in the end, I initiated battles on distance, and I combat stealthed by running around a corner as soon as I got my turn. The fact that they had to use their initial combat point to run up to me at the beginning was the only tactic I could play around on classic mode.
Suggestion:
1. When attacking someone from behind or from out of sight, please incorporate a 'surprised' feature that let's you go first.
2. There is a little bit too much initiative bound to items I feel. It's a little bit too hard to get the first move with pure stats, which I just personally feel should be the decisive thing when finding out who starts... Who's fast, and who's slow.
3. Certain enemies should have lower initiative in particular, such as zombies, golems, other mind depraved beings or simply 'very large' unless it's in their nature to be fast somehow. The initiative amount has to fit with the personal, not just purely the level of the thing.
I don't see why a high level NPC cleric should have more initiative than a low level one. The higher leveled one may be smarter, stronger, know more spells, more powerful spells, but why should it react faster? I could see a high level NPC thief having a growth in speed per level. Because that's one of the thing I associate with thieves... 'wits' the ability to react fast to the circumstances surrounding one.
There's a human behind every name
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
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Hi. I've played a bit of scoundrel, and I found pretty much every enemy to go before me in the first four levels I played. I wrote 3 phrases explaining my problem below, and below that, I put my suggestion.
Experience/problem:
The fact that every enemy acted first was sort of irritating, especially, when I initiated a fight from stealth.
I am 'surprising' my opponent with a stab to the back, and then their entire group gets to act first. It feels horrible.
I'm a relatively squishy character, in the midst of a group of enemies on classic, and the first thing they do is damage me and cc me. It feels bad backstabbing someone, only to have that be my only option.
In fact, it was so bad, that in the end, I initiated battles on distance, and I combat stealthed by running around a corner as soon as I got my turn. The fact that they had to use their initial combat point to run up to me at the beginning was the only tactic I could play around on classic mode.
This sums up my experience in a nutshell, and the entire reason I started this thread. It all boils down to this: -You either get lucky and the vendors have Initiative Gear with decent stats, or you never go first. -The broken stat system means Wit is a viable source of Initiative until level 3, and only if you do nothing but DUMP points into a useless combat stat JUST TO GO FIRST. -This effectively makes you have less health, damage, spell slots and mobility just to act first. This all on top of the fact the stat system already favors the AI.
Last edited by Fluffington; 17/10/16 03:24 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
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This thread needs to stay front page, *bump*
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2016
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Hi. I've played a bit of scoundrel, and I found pretty much every enemy to go before me in the first four levels I played. I wrote 3 phrases explaining my problem below, and below that, I put my suggestion.
Experience/problem:
The fact that every enemy acted first was sort of irritating, especially, when I initiated a fight from stealth.
I am 'surprising' my opponent with a stab to the back, and then their entire group gets to act first. It feels horrible.
I'm a relatively squishy character, in the midst of a group of enemies on classic, and the first thing they do is damage me and cc me. It feels bad backstabbing someone, only to have that be my only option.
In fact, it was so bad, that in the end, I initiated battles on distance, and I combat stealthed by running around a corner as soon as I got my turn. The fact that they had to use their initial combat point to run up to me at the beginning was the only tactic I could play around on classic mode.
This sums up my experience in a nutshell, and the entire reason I started this thread. It all boils down to this: -You either get lucky and the vendors have Initiative Gear with decent stats, or you never go first. -The broken stat system means Wit is a viable source of Initiative until level 3, and only if you do nothing but DUMP points into a useless combat stat JUST TO GO FIRST. -This effectively makes you have less health, damage, spell slots and mobility just to act first. This all on top of the fact the stat system already favors the AI. This thread needs to stay front page, *bump* I honestly don't think we should even bother talking about it right now. The attribute system is idiotic and it's breaking a lot of things in the game by existing, I think we should just wait to talk about initiative until it's changed. I believe in an alpha that we should talk about everything as it is, but this attribute system is just so broken and irredeemable it feels like a waste of time to say anything other than "fix it".
Last edited by chocolate; 23/10/16 10:41 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2016
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Sadly a true fact, I already stated aswell. 
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2016
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Hi. I've played a bit of scoundrel, and I found pretty much every enemy to go before me in the first four levels I played. I wrote 3 phrases explaining my problem below, and below that, I put my suggestion.
Experience/problem:
The fact that every enemy acted first was sort of irritating, especially, when I initiated a fight from stealth.
I am 'surprising' my opponent with a stab to the back, and then their entire group gets to act first. It feels horrible.
I'm a relatively squishy character, in the midst of a group of enemies on classic, and the first thing they do is damage me and cc me. It feels bad backstabbing someone, only to have that be my only option.
In fact, it was so bad, that in the end, I initiated battles on distance, and I combat stealthed by running around a corner as soon as I got my turn. The fact that they had to use their initial combat point to run up to me at the beginning was the only tactic I could play around on classic mode.
This sums up my experience in a nutshell, and the entire reason I started this thread. It all boils down to this: -You either get lucky and the vendors have Initiative Gear with decent stats, or you never go first. -The broken stat system means Wit is a viable source of Initiative until level 3, and only if you do nothing but DUMP points into a useless combat stat JUST TO GO FIRST. -This effectively makes you have less health, damage, spell slots and mobility just to act first. This all on top of the fact the stat system already favors the AI. This thread needs to stay front page, *bump* I honestly don't think we should even bother talking about it right now. The attribute system is idiotic and it's breaking a lot of things in the game by existing, I think we should just wait to talk about initiative until it's changed. I believe in an alpha that we should talk about everything as it is, but this attribute system is just so broken and irredeemable it feels like a waste of time to say anything other than "fix it". The whole point of a suggestion and feedback thread is to talk about it and not ignore it...
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2016
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It's not about ignoring it, it's about the fact, that Initiative is second layer depending on the stats. But the actual stat system is garbage and needs to be changed. Till Larian update with their other idea of using stats, it is hardly of use to discuss this specific topic. The change of stat-mechanic will change the initiative aswell anyway, and then we need to assess the situation anew anyway.
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