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Consequences to thieving? #658528 28/01/20 02:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2019 Full Bleed OP journeyman
OP Full Bleed journeyman Joined: Jun 2019	Are there any significant consequences to thieving? My multi-player group is trying to not be a bunch of dirty rotten scoundrels... but that is largely because we fear that there may be some kind of future judgement or impact that isn't currently obvious. Is there any benefit to being "good", law-abiding citizens? Or are we just being suckers in a dog-eat-dog world? And how does something being marked "stolen" affect it?

Re: Consequences to thieving? Full Bleed #658534 29/01/20 03:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2018 Location: Wisconsin W WINoodles journeyman
WINoodles journeyman W Joined: Nov 2018 Location: Wisconsin	You are being suckers. However, there are consequences to thieving. Once something has been pick pocketed in an area, NPCs will be more sensitive in that area. That means they will get a bit more upset if you accidentally touch something that doesn't belong to you. That is about the end of the consequences. Being flagged as stolen has no impact on the use of an item. What it does mean is that if you Pick Pocket someone and they find you in their search, if they find anything stolen on you, expect a fight. Optionally, you may have the choice of being sent to a prisoner cell if that NPC is a Magister. As such, you may want to ensure any character with a stolen item doesn't get found by an NPC searching for a pick pocket. If you are worried about having items flagged as stolen, the vast majority of items can be sold to a merchant are repurchased. This removes the "stolen" flag. Alternatively, you can buy the item from an NPC instead of stealing it. Then, pick pocket the NPC for gold. Stolen gold can be merged with any other gold to get rid of the "stolen" flag. You can even merge two sets of "stolen" gold to get rid of the flag.

Re: Consequences to thieving? Full Bleed #658546 30/01/20 06:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Canada Raze Support
Raze Support Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Canada	There is a late game quest that can be easily completed if a character has never stolen, killed any non-hostile NPCs directly or made certain immoral choices in quests or dialogue. Almost everyone uses the slightly more elaborate method to complete that part of the quest, though.

Re: Consequences to thieving? Full Bleed #658554 30/01/20 03:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2018 Location: Wisconsin W WINoodles journeyman
WINoodles journeyman W Joined: Nov 2018 Location: Wisconsin	Thanks for the clarification! That definition "non-hostile NPCs" is a bit vague. Most of the magisters in Driftwood are "non-hostile". However, if you cast a non-hostile skill of Spirit Vision, they become quite hostile. Who is considered the provoker of the fight in that case? The adjective "directly" seems a bit vague as well. If some careless person were to chain oil/poison barrels from a place where they knew an opponent would cast AOE to a location near NPCs, who dealt the damage to the NPCs? One last question. Say the characters that have stolen or "directly" killed a "non-hostile NPC" are characters that were left behind and died on the Lady Vengeance, is the party still flagged as hostile?

Re: Consequences to thieving? Full Bleed #658564 31/01/20 07:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Canada Raze Support
Raze Support Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Canada	I don't think using source counts unless you directly attack someone who isn't hostile. Using a summon to attack/kill NPCs doesn't count against the summoner. If a character creates a surface they may be blamed for the damage, but there is no tracking of the placement of barrels. The flag related to the quest I referred to is individual, not party based.

Re: Consequences to thieving? WINoodles #658569 31/01/20 08:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2016 Location: Eastern Washington state, USA C caninelegion Bugfinder General
caninelegion Bugfinder General C Joined: Nov 2016 Location: Eastern Washington state, USA	Good question because -- I just ran into an issue that brought it to mind. Place: north of the shadow lord on Nameless Isle. Who: Black Ring Camp (with dreamers) Why: I wanted to take advantage of terrain rather be in a kill zone so I lured them back to the shadow area where three of my crew were placed. What: Several times, the shadow prince and his minions agroed on me despite not using area weapons anywhere within the ruins. Once because a dual wand user had one of his wand shots hit an invisible minion; the other times, I have no clue why. We were even on good terms as I agreed to kill the mother tree (nobody told me it would leak above ground and kill everyone which I assume means Alexander preventing me from completing the sallow man task. Oh well, live and learn.

Re: Consequences to thieving? Raze #658570 31/01/20 08:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2016 Location: Eastern Washington state, USA C caninelegion Bugfinder General
caninelegion Bugfinder General C Joined: Nov 2016 Location: Eastern Washington state, USA	I have to respectfully disagree. I used spirit vision with the door open in the ship captain's room (Driftwood Tavern) and the magisters arrived saying something like, "did you just use source?" and they were not amused.

Re: Consequences to thieving? caninelegion #658583 31/01/20 06:23 PM
Joined: May 2010 Location: Oxford vometia Duchess of Gorgombert
vometia Duchess of Gorgombert Joined: May 2010 Location: Oxford	Originally Posted by caninelegion I have to respectfully disagree. I used spirit vision with the door open in the ship captain's room (Driftwood Tavern) and the magisters arrived saying something like, "did you just use source?" and they were not amused. Oh, yeah, I also got into trouble for the same thing. Magisters seemed to be a bit twitchy with overt magic usage and I learnt not to engage in that particular pastime in their vicinity. Not unless I wanted to fight about it. J'aime le fromage.

Re: Consequences to thieving? Full Bleed #658587 31/01/20 09:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2018 Location: Wisconsin W WINoodles journeyman
WINoodles journeyman W Joined: Nov 2018 Location: Wisconsin	As Raze states, it is the use of source magic that will get you into trouble. For example, you can summon the standard incarnate around magisters and they will gawk at it saying things like, "and here I thought I'ld seen everything." That is because summoning the standard incarnate isn't source magic. On the other hand, if Ifan were to summon his soul wolf in the Blackbull Tavern, that is source magic and would aggro any magister in range. Ok, the location doesn't matter, I just couldn't resist an in-game lore reference. Spirit Vision is a type of source magic, it just doesn't require the use of a point of source. That is why magisters get upset when you use it near them. I chose my questions for Raze thoughtfully from in-game experience of testing the limits of what I could get away with. Perhaps another example would help as well. If you summon the Scoundrel Wind-Up Toy, summoning it will not provoke anyone because it isn't source magic. However, when it blows up, it may damage people or items people own. This may upset them enough to attack.

Re: Consequences to thieving? WINoodles #658592 01/02/20 02:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2016 Location: Eastern Washington state, USA C caninelegion Bugfinder General
caninelegion Bugfinder General C Joined: Nov 2016 Location: Eastern Washington state, USA	Originally Posted by WINoodles As Raze states, it is the use of source magic that will get you into trouble. I didn't take this: "I don't think using source counts unless you directly attack someone who isn't hostile" to mean that (and I still don't). The whole point was that using any type of source magic, even if it doesn't cause damage, upsets the magisters. I don't know to what extent they get upset (and if I misinterpreted Raze's answer - this would be the point - would it cause a flag?) because, in a got ya situation, I tend to chalk it up to learning the game mechanics and go back to the "real world" - a prior save - and not repeat the error. I suppose they'd want to send me to Ft Joy and all local magisters would attack on site from then on. Now I'm going to have to try this to see what happens.

Re: Consequences to thieving? Full Bleed #658595 01/02/20 01:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Canada Raze Support
Raze Support Joined: Mar 2003 Location: Canada	I wasn't answering a question about the magisters; I was answering whether killing them in this circumstance would be counted as taking an innocent life for the purposes of a later quest. Loading a save in the editor, it should be possible to check the flag used for that quest, to test whether certain actions are counted for this purpose, or not. In the editor the command "oe PoB_CheckFlags" should list debug text checks above all player characters' heads. One of the programmers checked recently when someone asked about the Path of Blood trial / Puritan's Walk achievement, and provided a list of most of the actions that would affect this (he wasn't able to look up a couple of things). For the purposes of this trial, the flag used is named GLO_PathOfBlood_MurderedInnocent. What counts: 0) killing any character in the game, except for the tentacles in the Arx harbour (using a summon to kill someone is fine though) 1) releasing death fog in Arx 2) snuffing candles during the Doctor's Weakining ritual in Arx (and completing the the Weakening also marks Lohse as having killed an innocent) 3) giving a dagger to some Black Ring in a dialog on the Nameless Isle 4) allow companion Ifan to kill Saheila in Fort Joy 5) allow companion Ifan to kill Alexandar in the Nameless Isle 6) allow companion Sebille to kill Stingtail in Fort Joy 7) killing Jonathan (in dialog) in Reaper's Coast 8) killing the source lich (in dialog) in Reaper's Coast 9) killing Lohar (in dialog) when he begs for mercy after beating him (I think that only happens when Ifan companion is nearby) 10) killing Mordus (in dialog) after he begs for mercy 11) killing Owin (in dialog) near the oil fields in Reaper's Coast (the execution scene) 12) something in the ARX_Cathedral_DivineTomb_PoB_LucianStatue.lsj dialog (no idea what) 13) something in the CoS_Temples_Human_BlackRing_003.lsj dialog (no idea what)

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