Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Does the BG rules limit summoning specialists?

I loved summoning in DOS2. The summons themselves were fairly varied, had their unique feel, gameplay usages and not least - SYNERGY. This last part was my favorite. There were so much you could do like create a bloating corpse, use the fire self explosion debuff and send it in for double explosions. Buff your summons to become power houses etc. Overall as a summoning fanatic in all RPG's since the beginning of time - I found it immensly fun.

The problem is... I can't recall the BG system having the same depth from playing old school RPGs. IIRC they were more... boring and straight forward.
Nothing beat the epic cool feeling of summoning a Balor in NWN though. First time I did that I got chills.

Basically my concern for discussion is this. Is it likely that summoning will be watered down in BG3 due to the inherent rules of the BG DnD systems being more restrictive and dull there?
Super hyped for BG3. Just wondering if I should keep my expectations in check for what to expect with summoned creatures in BG3. I want variety, specialist roles for summons, and synergy of spells and buffs for summoned creatures.

Anyone with intimate knowledge of the DnD systems the last decade that can give some info on the potential and pros/cons of DnD over DOS2's systems when it comes to summons?

First of all, DoS systems are out of the table. The game will use official 5e rules and lore for everything that those rules cover, like summoning(They have WoTC collaborators working with them to make sure of it), with some adaptations to a videogame, or at least that´s what they said in all the interviews and gameplays.


Second, BG3 it´s a videogame. I doubt you will have the +100 druid/polymorph shapeshifting forms nor the +100 creatures you can summon with "Conjure animals" and "Summon fey/celestial/fiend, etc", summon spirit spells or create undead spells; but I hope they will allow the players to have some variety.

Right now the summonning spells and polymorph spells were not showed in the gameplay, so we do not know much about how it´s going to be:

Can you summon outside combat? can you polymorph your summons? can you talk to them if they have a language? Do you need actual corpses to create undead like in pnp? Are they going to nerf the duration of some spells like Awaken(It lasts for 30 days)? etc.


Ed: We were discussing some ideas in this thread the other day too that could apply to your thread too Summoning builds

@_Vic_ No RPG ever implemented all P&P summoning options, whoever, if BG3 has the same amount of summoning options of kingmaker, it would be good enough.

Kingmaker was fun, tho it realy didnt have all that many.
i got a bit annoyed that with summon monsters you oculdnt pick what you summoned outside getting to decide tosummon one stronger or several weaker monsters.
but i guess they had some variety based on alignment

the issue with BG3 is that were talking DnD 5e which restricts summoning quite a bit compared to older editions

And in general, there are few ways to improve the performance and durability of your summons. (There are not communal haste or stat-enhancing spells and very very few features that allow you to improve your summoning spells because metamagic is not a thing unless you´re a sorc) and there are not many summoning builds in the PHB. There´s the conjurer that only improves your summoning at mid-high levels, the battlesmith artificer and the "Circle of the Shepherd" druid subclass, but the latter is UA material.


In general summoning schools do not receive much love in this edition.

Necromancers are probably the weakest wizard specialization on 5e. Sad considering how necromancers are amazing on 2e and on 3.5e...

I an trying to solo BG2 as a Necromancer, on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty and OHK spells and summons are saving my life since monsters has so much HP and always hit. If you put "lower resist -> lower resist -> Great Malison" in a Spell Trigger and then, cast Finger of Death in the enemy, it kinda forces the enemy to make the save vs spell at -8 disadvantage (-2 from necro specialization, - 2 from Finger of Death spell, -4 from Greater Malison). Since the Greater Malison is casted on the trigger AFTER the lower resistance, if the necromancer is lv 20, they have 95% chance of sticking(65% = Base MR - 30*2 from LR). Firkraag has a 65% chance of failing a save VS finger of Death if the Malison is on and 45% if is off, due his saves. Combined it is around 60,8% chance of OHKilling Firkraag as a lv 20 necromancer. I an lv 18 at moment(imported a character only for Legacy of Bhaal), so my chances are smaller. But 60% chances of OHKilling a dragon is not that bad if you are a lv 20 caster.

Here is a screenshot of I killing him with Finger of Death. He resisted my first FoD but failed vs the second. And the summons are more to cause distraction, not to fight him. Dragons on BG2 has a lot of nasty spell effects, they aren't giant flying lizards.



I also tried to face him earlier BUT i could't even reach him without some HLA. Adamantine golems are too dan powerful and on Legacy of Bhaal, there are a lot of then protecting his dungeon. When i soloed on Insane, Adamanting Golems was far rarer.