Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) Larian tolerates hate speech against autism?

Pbrosio (and Squesing);
If I was moderating in an unprofessional way, there would be a lot more banning going on.


The point of bringing up that the proposed modding would ban a lot of others, including the one doing most of the advocating, was twofold:

A) It would not create the effect you desire. There are very often unintended consequences to censorship, and there are lots of cases where people advocating for it eventually have it used against them.
Also, banned people never change their minds. If you ban someone, they go somewhere where they will not be banned for what they say, which can lead to radicalisation. Using social pressure to discourage the applicable behaviour can and has gotten people to change.

B) By demonstrating that it is possible to ignore insults, I was hoping others would also do so.
Tuco's posts do not matter. At most he should be some jerk on the internet to you, annoying but soon forgotten. You are wasting your time (and mine) obsessing over a trivial insult. You are trying to give his words far more meaning than they deserve.



(traduzione di Google)
Pbrosio (e Squesing);
Se stessi moderando in modo non professionale, ci sarebbero molti più divieti in corso.


Lo scopo di far notare che il modding proposto avrebbe vietato molti altri, incluso quello che fa la maggior parte della difesa, era duplice:

A) Non creerebbe l'effetto che desideri. Ci sono molto spesso conseguenze non intenzionali per la censura e ci sono molti casi in cui le persone che la sostengono alla fine la usano contro di loro.
Inoltre, le persone bandite non cambiano idea. Se metti al bando qualcuno, va da qualche parte dove non sarà bandito per quello che dice, il che può portare alla radicalizzazione. Usare la pressione sociale per scoraggiare il comportamento applicabile può e ha portato le persone a cambiare.

B) Dimostrando che è possibile ignorare gli insulti, speravo che lo facessero anche altri.
I post di Tuco non contano. Al massimo dovrebbe essere un idiota su Internet per te, fastidioso ma presto dimenticato. Stai sprecando il tuo tempo (e il mio) ossessionato da un insulto banale. Stai cercando di dare alle sue parole molto più significato di quanto meritino.

Name a more appropriate forum. It has nothing to do with the website itself, but 'About this website' could also be appropriate.
I wasn't the one who moved the topic.


I did not say he stopped immediately. He did stop, though.



Why don't you start with a lawyer (there should be groups where you can get free legal advice), and see if trivial insults on the internet actually rise to the level of hate speech and discrimination?

By the way, many jurisdictions have a 'clean hands doctrine', in which those seeking equity from a court must act that way themselves. If you are acting in as bad or worse a manner as the person you are complaining about, a court is not necessarily going to be sympathetic.

Consider how many people asked you to stop in the other topic. I know you think you are fighting for some kind of principle, but the more you continue, the worse you make yourself look.
I sincerely believe you would be much better off if you just dropped this. If you don't believe me, talk to some friends or relatives who will give you their honest opinion.

There are a lot of ways you can moderate badly: ban too much is as bad as never banning.

Anyway I already said that the important is that the hate speech content should be canceled. If you don't want to ban Tuco, as would have happened in ANY decently moderated forum, you can only edit his comments. Delete the discriminating content is actually the minimum you should do. And no, if you adopt the criteria of banning racist and discriminating comment there was not any other ban to do in that thread. Sure there was anger and sarcasm and some insult there, but NONE regarding any form of discrimination against minorities, which is something you seem even not able to recognize (you always go on a "denial of evidence mode" every time). The best hypothesis is that you are biased, I don't mention the worst...

Tuco is not changing his trivial and primitive ideas neither if you ban or not, but it is important the message you throw to all other users. The message should be that no autism discrimination is tolerated here. By now, I have to sadly confirm that you are making ANYTHING to tolerate this shitty content.

I am not obsessed by the insult itself, I am "obsessed" by your childish refuse to take responsability and appropriate actions for what happen in this forum. Just stop a moment and think honestly about your behaviour.

I won't start with a lawyer, I have already said that I don't want to oversize the situation. I will start with Larian channels and press and other forums, then we'll see. The only person who look worse and worse every time is you.

P.s. in the other topic I was asked to stop just because I was OT. Some of the people who asked to move the conversation actually wrote publicly and privately that they agree with me.

You are addicted to lies and to transform reality in the picture you desire.

Can you express yourself in a less cryptic and more argumentative way? Otherwise you are just trolling and "normiebullying" around without any constructive meaning.

I see that alt-right shit is very popular here, btw.

Alright. Here is my take. You are overreacting. You would still be overreacting if your behaviour was on the level, but your aggresive remarks toward devs were what made me ignore that thread. I don't envy moderator's job of navigating that minefield. Your remarks were out of line, and Tuco's remarks were out of line. We can debate who was out of line more, but I don't think that really matters.

I don't believe your actions here have anything to do with caring about "hate speech". Your comments didn't express concern for others, actively wishing them harm for not providing something you wish for. But when another poster attacked YOU in an inappropriate manner and you seek revenge for that. And you attack the moderator who didn't do what you wished him to do. While you might have been genuily hurt by Tuco's comments and offended by slurs he used, one forum member offending another one is all that took place, but that doesn't remove hypocrisy underlying this crusade of yours.

You want is an apologies to YOU, and to moderator to face consequences of not exacting punishment on forum member who offended YOU, and that's all because company decided against translating the game to a language YOU want to play it in. At the same time you have no consideration of what you said before and after that incident could affect others.

I am not writing all of this to attack you. I don't know you, I don't know what you did and are going through, especially that recent months have been tough on most of us. You will be wasting your time trying to get satisfaction from this. Do something nice if you can, and move on. Take the high ground, just like Larian did with your (and other posters) remarks. In the long run it's the healthier way of doing things.

If you were right I wouldn have asked to be banned too. I know I overreacted about the main topic at the beginning (like A LOT of people there), and probably even after Raze's answers (that are "perfect" to stimulate overreactions) but you are assuming that a certain level of aggressivity in a discussion is the same of the hate speech. I don't want an apology, I want the hate speech content removed from the contents avaiable on this forum. You are putting random remarks at the same level of hate speech and discrimination, and that is simply not true because they are different type of content. I do not wished "harm" for others, unless you consider an unpaid job a "harm", then you have to admit that Larian harm italian translators by taking their translation without paying them (and avoiding to pay other translators that offered themselves to do the job).

I don't see your point, or maybe I see it but I consider it highly uncorrect, as I explain.

I actually have a problem with the "ratio" of many arguments here:

I can even be the most unpleasant person on the planet, but how this can justify tolerance of hate speech content? And how can you consider the comments I describe as "mild" comment and not hate and discriminating speech against autism and autistic people? The comments quoted speaks for themselves!

I believe Raze already suggested you consult a legal help in that regard. "Hate speech" is not the same as calling names. You saying that "hate speech" happen, doesn't make it so. If you believe "Hate speech" took place and Larian employees failed to interviene you should also be comfortable talking to a lawyer about it. And if you believe you don't have the case then.... well, you don't have a case, and this thread is pointless. Feel free to write to Larian management and media, but I doubt anyone will pick it up, because there is nothing here.


That's a silly way of reasoning. No company is required to translate their game into every language. You accuse Larian is not doing their own italian translation because they expect a free one to be made. That's an unsubstantiated claim, based on reasons and motivations formed purely in your head.

Lawyers costs money in my country, maybe in Irland they are free but I highly doubt it.

If calling autistic people "whiny", "petty", "obsessed" etc. is not hate speech, than also insulting any minority in the same way wouldnt.

Now, if someone in this forum had called black people "whiny", "petty", "social stunted" etc. or used "the N word" I am pretty sure that all of your relativistic denial wouldnt show. If you don't think that what I listed is hate speech, than explain why you think that, instead of stopping your reasoning in a sterile dubitative attitude (like Raze always did).

You are also assuming that protesting for anything that is not highly illegal is pointless. I think the sillyness of this concept can be evident without any further explanation. Do you really need more explanation for the difference between legality and ethicity?


Regarding the "harm" argument, I am just saying that wishing an unpaid job to someone (I was clearly provoking btw, and you have taken literally... And I am the autistic one lol) is not a "harm wishing". You obviously slide your answer in the diversionary and less utile aspect. That is semanticly uncorrect reasoning. Believe me, if there are some sillyness here, it is not coming from me.

I wouldn't know, Belfast is located in UK. Even so, I don't have a habit of pursuing punishment for people who call me names on the internet. Still, you can find free legal advice at least to get an idea if you have any basis for anything. I am sorry that I can't be bothered to do the research for you.

Correction: he called you "whiny". "petty", "obsessed" etc., no? And considering that very thread you started.... how did you put it yourself?

Attacking individuals shouldn't be tolerated in general, and he used some additional names which were in a really poor taste to use. He was stopped. Perhaps not as efficiently as you wished, but he was stopped.

EDIT: Also:

If you demand punishment and firing of an employee then... yes, very much so. If you accuse someone of an assault and demand for that someone to face consequence, as well as for someone overseeing the situation for not intervening - it would be nice to determine if that assault really happened. If instead someone pushed you to the side - that wasn't a nice thing to do, but it doesn't quite count as assault doesn't it?

Accusing someone of making "hate speech" is a serious accusation. If appropriate it should be treated as such.

No. He dosnt call me with those insults. He said that all autistic people are. I guess that you know geography way better than you are able to read a post in a forum, because i clearly quoted his exact word in the contest.

..and I clearly wrote also that it is sufficient that a mod delete the hate speech content from comments. I don't need a punishment, even if I have to notice that in every other normal moderated forum that user would have rapidly banned.

So you see that all the things you saying about my intentions (that you pretend to know better than me) are clearly false. Lucky that you did not want to attack me eh?

I have to sadly assume that you have a problem of comprehension of simple texts. I never demand firing of an employee, and you clearly have not a single clue of the context where I was "wishing for unpayed jobs" to Raze, just because you did not read the thread but only the convenient quotes that @composer did. I already explained arguments about that, I wish you can overcome your comprehension blocks and manage to have a better understanding of the whole thread.

What I read is him using autism as an insult. While inappropriate it is not the same as insulting people for being autistic. All those seemed to me to be directed at individuals disagreeing with him, not at actual autistic people. Both response, and name-calling is in bad taste, but you give it far more attention then it deserves.

Tuco wrote (I clearly quoted it in the main post, it is sad that I have to underline it again just because you stubbornly lack understanding
. But I am a nice person, so I do it for you )



"I brought up the term that perfectly described the type of obsessive-compulsive, petty, whinyand socially-stunted attitude I was witnessing.
And don't even try to sell the bullshit that the entire thread was "closed because of me", anyway."


I hope I don't have to explain anymore that this sentence is offending ALL AUTISTIC PEOPLE. Would be depressing if you still don't understand the semantic. Plaese make a cognitive effort.

..and by the way, also just using "autistic" as an insult is offensive for all autistic people. He did more, but also if he just did what you say it was hate speech.

Think about the same user "just" addressing with the "N word" all users that disagree with him. Cmon, you can understand this i know it.

I should clarify that I moved it, as I pointed out in the original topic. There is no attempt to cover up otherwise I would've just locked or deleted it instead, it was simply not on topic for BG3 so I moved it to general chat.

Thanks for your excellent moderation and wise comments, Raze. Hopefully it will set the tone in future.

So what you say is that all those commenters are indeed autistic and they were attacked because of it? I am pretty sure THAT would be hate speech.

That's why some form of the legal advice is suggested, to make sure that does count as hate speech. I don't think that making a racist/sexist/anti-autistic comment doesn't automatically qualifies as hate speech. Calling someone who acts stingy "You jew!" (example from where I grew in. I can't think of an example when someone would use N word toward not black people - the distinction which I think is important) isn't a tasteful insult to make, and has basis in racist assumptons, but it's not an attack on actual Jews, as that person is most likely not a actual Jew.

EDIT. And while moderators will do good to stop users from insult each other ("Discuss the topic not each other" is line often thrown on Obsidian's forum) erasing posts constaing insults might be counter-productive. And as I see it Tucos comments where still insults aimed at yourself and other users, not autistic people, even if he should show more empathy toward people who got unlucky to be born with a disorder and not use it as an insult.