Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Nerf Respec please

What surprised me about it was that it doesn't have an incremental cost like a lot of cRPGs do it. The first one is 100, then 200, then 400, then 800, then 1600, etc. Or even more steep than that, the fact that it remains a flat 100gp is shockingly cheap given that an Oathbreaker costs 2k, rezzing also costs significantly more than respec.

It feels like playing with cheat codes.

I get that some people are ok with that, but that always felt like... what's the word I'm looking for... "cheating"?

It's most definitely not in the spirit of D&D where character choices and limitations have consequences.

(And yes, I'm ignoring the whole "don't use it if you don't like it" defense, because that's such an arbitrary defense of poor game design. They've made it a cornerstone of their game design, so not using it is like not using a piece in chess because you don't like the look of it. This is their ruleset and I'm playing their game. But when comparing rulesets, D&D never embraced such an idea for good reason and I think this game is lesser for having done so.)

D&D never needed it because you make a mistake levelling up you just go, hey GM to wrote the wrong thing down and hand you a rubber and.. boom, it's fixed. respec is there for when you click the wrong buttons or realise you messed up your multiclass plan by leaving it too late or etc, all things in D&D you'd talk it out with the GM, not to scam the game, and if you really want to scam and exploit you'll find a way. I really don't get the problem with it, if it's just oh I can exploit this in a way that will make the game not fun, like then dont? and if you will exploit it in a way that makes the game more fun, then do cos more fun!
If you're worried about other people cheating, who cares and if you're worried about you cheating, how is that an everyone elses problem?

Until video games have GMs we can open the chat and go through things work, respec is one of those saves people from scrapping the game 40 hours in to fix a 2 hours ago unthinkingly hit the wrong button at level up mistake

Firm and hard NO from me.

I'd only maybe consider it IF they actually made it so you could see the full 1-to-12 level progression. As things stand, if you don't have prior D&D 5e experience or a guide/wiki, it's impossible to know if a certain build is viable or crippling. And when you have things like the Collage of Lore's bonus skills being fixed causing you to potentially have fewer skills than someone who knew ahead of time, making it a less convenient feature is just punishing new and un-experienced players.

And frankly, who exactly is being hurt by the fixed 100g cost? No one. This whole thing just feels like a "Back in my day we had to suffer to respec. You youngins got it too good!"

I mostly agree with you but it would be nice to remove things that are jarring. Everything Withers does feels like a cheat code. I think it would be a better game if you could remove him on a harder setting, basically giving up resurrection, respec, and vessels (hopefully with custom party added to replace it). However, you can choose Story Mode and your fairy godmother (Withers) is added. Immersion-breaking doesn't matter nearly as much if you have to open up a menu to select it.

Reporting in!
Here's how I see it - limiting this option in any way can reduce the enjoyment some players get from the game, while leaving the option as it is now will only take away the enjoyment from you if and when you decide to use it.
Cheers.

This kind of logic is very true about so many things in so many games.
And often plays into "if you don't like don't use" not being a valid argument.

Side note, having both respeccing so readily available and also the "replace spell" part of leveling certain caster classes, feels laughably redundant.
Warlock leveling, for example, has "replace spell" options on leveling for a reason. That reason, that aspect of the class, is invalidated by the respec mechanic.
Plus it eliminates the main difference between caster classes, which is the dichotamy between the ones that prepare spells vs the ones that have a set list of known spells.

Continuing with Warlock as the example, some spells don't upcast, and any non-upcasting spell is just a bad build option for a warlock once you level past it. But it can still be good at it's originally earned level, so you'd take it then and replace it later.
As a Goolock I liked using Phantasmal Force, which was a great spell while my slots were level 2. As soon as my slots were level 3, the spell could only be seen as trash, and needed to be swapped out.
Which you would do as part of leveling progression, replacing it with a higher level spell, or one that upcasts.

Instead we can just replace our entire spell list at any time, and on a whim at that, making every caster class feel like a wizard.
Swapping out spells and having access to so many is supposed to be what makes wizards wizards. If every class can do it, every class is a wizard.

Respec kind of needs to be in the game in some form because ability & spell descriptions are often misleading or flat out wrong. E.g., the Evasive Footwork maneuver says it'll impose "Disadvantage on enemy melee attacks against you for a round," yet the Evasive condition ends as soon as you end your turn. I immediately respec'd Lae'zel after finding this out because that's basically a useless maneuver for a melee fighter.

But yeah, I think it'd be sensible for the cost to increase. Either every time you use it, or have the cost scale with character level.

Tbh after I respecced Astarion at the beginning because I AM THE ROGUE not him, to be a ranger, I forgot the function existed, I also forgot Withers existed and never talked to him for the rest of the game because he didn't have anything interesting to say.

I can't really see the reason to nerf an optional feature in a single player game. If this game was in anyway competitive I would say go for it, or if they had a deathless run, maybe put that in. But as it stands theres no reason you can't just forget Withers exists.

I love the infinite respec for a regular playthrough, but would wholeheartedly endorse a much stricter version for tactician mode.

Would make no difference, all that players would do os change the difficulty before respeccing.

Why would you even suggesst that? No self control?

What seems normal nowadays is that especially developers forget why we play games: Fun!

Online games like WoW and similar put ingame currency or even real money in front of things like respec to generate money or create a timesink so people have to play longer to farm said ingame currrency.

Reading this post makes me feel that players are so used to this pratice that they actually WANT to be forced to spend more time and money on the game for stuff like this instead of enjoying actual content.

This game needs neither and i am thankful to larian that they made it like it is.

That's perfect. I think taking Withers out of the game would work just fine on Tactician. Only those players who wanted to respec would break immersion and switch to story mode. I mean, you could put George Washington in the game to answer questions about the American Revolutionary War, but if George only showed up in Cheat/Joke/Story Mode, I'd be fine with that. Withers isn't as bad as George Washington, but he is clearly an anthropomorphic cheat code. Put cheat codes behind Story mode and let those who want to play without them never see them at all, I say. I'd give Withers even more cheat codes and just not use them unless I really needed to dip in for just a sec (like your example with Astarion), but I'd be happy knowing that other players had more options, assuming Larian has the time to properly add them. I personally feel like the only reason I need Withers is because I can't have a custom party; if I get that, I wouldn't need to cheat and wouldn't want to see Withers (or George Washington) at all.

Well, gosh. Let's just add "please remove game saves because it makes 'choice' irrelevant" as well. I'm with ya, OP!

(that's sarcasm, btw)

Better option: Leave the base game as it is. Allow players to select a "hardcore" mode when starting a new game which disables the ability to respec. This can be separately elected from the difficulty setting.

The game needs a "Tactitian, Immersive, 100% D&D, No cheese, No cheats" mode.

With optional HARDCORE tactitian which has:
-Slot base inventory. Max 30 slots. Think about what you bring and use.
-Short rest limit. No rest in many areas.
-Buff in enemy AI, more D&D stats variety.
-Regular weapons sell for nothing. Magic weapons x5 the price to buy. Less magic weapons. No copy of magic items or weapons.
-Half the food available.
-No more UI map (find actual MAPS in gameworld) No markers. No waypoints.
...


And see how many think its NOT fun. Bet you that would be the most popular mode, by far.

Oh Count Turnip, you slay me.

I'd say yeah, but its seems like its already to late. Thats something that should of been in the game at launch.

I 'm not trying to talk you out of that idea, but I wanted to point out that Withers is important to the story of a certain NPC.

It should've been free for the first 3.