Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Add more answer options for Astarion

I wrote about this in another topic, but decided to create a separate one. Me and several other players noticed a strong difference in the dialogues between Ascended Astarion and Spawn Astarion. The difference comes from the player's character and this seriously interferes with the role-play.



You can see Tav's answers for Ascended Astarion. I assure you, at this point he did not say or do anything offensive towards our character. He just asked "What do you want". This dialog has a good option at the beginning: "I just wanted you to be happy" But then there is not a single positive or neutral answer option. There is many options that provoke conflict. The option "I want you" and then the clarification "YOUR BODY" even seems offensive to me. But if someone wants to play bad_guy_tm, it's appropriate. However, for a character who is happy with everything in this situation, there is no suitable option. What option could there be?

"Now I just want to get rid of the tadpoles"
"I want to be with you" (have nothing to do with the body) etc

Astarion will still offer us the "gift of eternity", but it is much better when he does it himself. "I want to be a vampire like you" option sounds selfish, as if we used him. We have only the last two possible answers, which create an atmosphere of aggression and conflict. In this situation, which is funny, the aggressor is not Astarion, but our character. And all because dev didn't give us a choice to behave differently.

The latter answer simply creates a conflict out of thin air, since Astarion has called us a "pet" before and this has never caused anger. This disadvantage applies not only to Ascended Astarion.

Let's look at the dialogues of Spawn Astarion, and we will understand that you do not have a single frankly rude answer. There's also no way you can miss the tombstone scene, literally. You can't refuse, you can't leave during the scene. You can't answer spawn with "I was just having fun" or "I wanted to have a good time, but I don't want anything serious." After all, you can add the answer "I'm too tired I don't want to go anywhere." There is a similar answer for Emperor scene, when he appears in a dream and you can refuse him a dialogue. I can get out of my own head, but not from a tombstone.


Honestly, it's weird. It feels as if the writer is trying to impose they position on my character and this is unpleasant, and also interferes with the role-play. Like, "this is bad, so you have to behave like this" and "this is good, so don't you dare be rude." I think every player can decide for themselves.

Positive or neutral option should be added for Ascended Astarion.

Negative option should be added for Spawn Astarion. It is possible to break off the relationship or not go to the tombstone at all.

Please consider this possibility.

I will be glad if others support this idea.

Agreed! I always choose ascension in my play-through and it’s not because ‘I want his body.’ That always leaves a bad taste in my mouth because, sure, it’s part of it, but I want him because of who he is. I want him to be stronger, to achieve autonomy for once and, to me, he wants it.

Ascended Astarion still has trauma which will take time to work through, so delegating him to a sex object just because he went ahead with the ritual… it doesn’t make sense at all. I want him to be his own person, that’s why I play ascended. If I wanted a toy, I’d stay single.

I support Nyloth, it was very strange to see 4 out of 5 Tav’s lines in the game in a negative way.

This touched my vulnerable nature a little.

Ascended Astarion deserves normal/cute responses, it's a roleplay after all. I don't want to be rude to my dark companion. On the contrary, I want to say that I am completely on his side.

I totally support it! I've dreamed of having an affair with a gorgeous, complex, Merry Villain since I was a kid. I want to act like a bunny. Or a happy Queen. Or both. Please

Yeah, to me these were also moments when I lost immersion.
For every other dialogue in the game, I had an option to behave like an ass, be neutral/grey or play a good guy/be supportive. And yet here every option for ascendant feels bad/negative and there's no way to refuse the spawn. For ascendant, your Tav only wanted to make a transaction(to become a vampire/have sex) or they are mad at the change they helped to make a few minutes earlier. And similarly for the spawn, Tav can't change mind/continue to be an ass.
Narrowing dialogue options (in their tone) kinda breaks role playing and immersion to me. If I should feel bad/good about something, it's better to kill me with consequences of my actions. (There are so many good moments already in this game, when I felt like crap/satisfied after some choice, and it was just because the game gave me that choice and successfully showed me something AFTER the choice was made. Not because it was showing me the right way by dialogue options.)

+1 I always advocate for more chances for immersive role-playing! And while these dialogue options didn't detract my personal playthrough, I will always love more options to say/do different things.

The post-ascension conversation completely destroyed my immersion and was the most difficult dialogue to get through because none of the selections were remotely tolerable.
Where is the option to say

'You don't have to do anything for me, I'm just glad he won't bother us anymore and we can relax now. We're finally free of him."
or
"I think we should toast to our victory. I've been saving a bottle just for the occasion."
or
"We could go for a midnight stroll in some dark alleys and look for trouble. Not like I'll have to worry about getting hurt with a mighty vampire lord by my side."
?

I don't want to ask to be turned as a form of transaction and especially just after dealing with his personal problem, I don't want to lust over his body to trivialise a crucial moment in his and Tav's relationship, I'm not angry about being called a 'pet' again and after having heard him use so many names already (at this point to me it's just an Astarion thing; he even has a hilarious banter with Lae'zel about pet names, where he teaches her some of them and they're all related to food) and I don't want to lecture him after being cautiously optimistic yet fully supportive of his ascension throughout the game.
The moment after the ritual we can tell him he's magnificent, cheekily say we're not afraid of him, tell him to embrace his powers, express relief that Cazador is gone. These are all positive or neutral options. However, as soon as we go for a long rest suddenly Tav gets cranky, obnoxious and confrontational. It's pure nonsense!

When we compare it to the spawn conversation it's obvious the game is trying to raillroad us into breaking up with the ascendant and hooking up with spawn Astarion. Clearly the author there put all Tavs in one bag, assumes selfish motivations on the player's part and wants to send them a message. It's not only preachy, limiting and lacks continuity but it's also downright contradictory. On one hand the game is telling us 'this is a bad thing you did there, you know, just look at the a-hole you are', while at the same time rewards us because AA has more dialogues, more comments, his behaviour is consistent and it's a logical conclusion to his story.

We need more roleplay options for both paths.

To be fair, the way he says pet post ascension is clearly meant to be more demeaning than when he says it as a term of endearment. I think it‘s a natural conversation path for an evil character who genuinely loves him, but is resistant to the idea of being forced to submit to him.

> I’m not your pet
> it’s a joke, stop being a humorless little wretch
> it’s not a joke, it sounds like you mean it
> …
> After everything we’ve been through with Cazador, you want to make me your spawn?
> It wouldn’t be anything like how it was with Cazador! I’d never hurt you! I love you! …that’s what you’ve been wanting to hear, isn’t it?
> …

The biggest misses are that there’s no way to A. tell it to him straight that you see what he’s trying to do and you’re not going to be his slave, or B. respond with genuine affirmation that you want to be with him knowing full well what he’s proposing.

I do hate how most of the dialogue options seem to suggest you’re just stupidly naive. Like, cmon, my DUrge made SH into a DJ, like hell they’re gonna tell him they won’t help him ascend. They’re just as cowardly and power hungry as he is. And what the hell is “I want your body” as an option? Like who is that for? Lol.

Side note: I do think he should offer to get back together with you when he tries to apologize later if you rejected him and broke up. Right now, you can stay together as a non vampire if you end the game before getting this scene, in which case he’ll say “This isn’t what you want yet…but I’m sure you’ll come around in time.” I could see him coming back with a “I was hasty before…, perhaps you just aren’t ready to rush into things”

I'm not asking to remove existing dialog options. Each of them may be appropriate for a particular character. However, this dialogue has no positive options. All of them automatically make you either selfish or offended. Your character is always unhappy. Even when you choose this option, you can see the animation of discontent and aggression on Tav face.

My character is happy with everything and I would like to support Astarion, and not find fault with words.

Yes, there definitely needs add dialogue to delay transform into spawn. For example, the option "I need to think, this is a serious decision" or "Let's deal with worms first, it is unknown how they will affect my transformation."


Also interesting options, especially considering the fact Ascended Astarion is the only one who does not have any romantic scenes.

The writers aren't trying to impose a position on your character, they've constructed a narrative because it's a story. The choices you're given reflect the intended narrative themes. The crux of Astarion's story here is about whether he will break the cycle of abuse or continue it. The romance is only potentially a part of that and his story exists outside of it. It's an authentic portrayal of the varying ways abuse and trauma can affect people, and they never pull punches with how ugly and corrosive that can be at any point in Astarion's story. They're not going to do it at the conclusion which is meant to be a brutally honest portrayal of the cyclical nature of abuse. It's a very well written and poignant narrative conclusion to his story and a valid path to choose. That's not to say anyone is wrong for enjoying or being attracted to this version of the character. They're not. But what's being asked for here is a different version of the character and story they've written.

It should be reflected in him, not in my character. They can portray him as they want, I'm not asking to change his answers. I ask to change MY answers. I am completely satisfied with his Ascended version. So I don't understand why you wrote all this.

Writer forces me to provoke a conflict when I don't want to. It doesn't show any trauma, it's simple... foolishly. This is a silly letter for a role-playing game. And, if you haven't forgotten, it's not just a story. This is not a book. This is a role-playing game, which means you can change this story. If they take away my ability to change the story, then it's bad for the role-playing game. If my character is completely satisfied with Astarion's behavior and does not pursue selfish goals (SUCH AS HIS BODY), then I should have a suitable answer.

I hope now you understand what I mean?

I also don't understand how everything you wrote relates to the fact that I can't leave the cemetery scene. Any character deserves to answer "no, I don't want to go with you, I'm tired/etc". I could have done it in the second act at the moment of his confession, but I can't do it in the third? And you tell me that this is not an imposition of story? What is the problem?

Please make it happen, I was soo weirded by the options, my character 100% supported his decision to ascend since the beginning and those options seemed like I was trying to guilt trip him, not in my character at all, I just wanted to say something like, I'm happy is over and you finally get to live again!" Or "I'm happy that you are free, and is enough for me to be by your side". I don't think is fair the game is basically taking a decision for my character to be a brat after being on board with everything so far.

So much this - I’ve supported AA the whole game and wanted him to complete the ritual. And now the choices are effectively painting me as a bad person for supporting AA (sex object / vamp transaction) or I break up with him because he’s suddenly morally reprehensible.

I feel like the writers have forgotten he’s a vampire, he’s always going to be a bit dubious and it’s perfectly okay to support him as the MC without being pigeon holed by morality activists.

Ok, so I'm kinda having a hard time understanding the ask here for some of these comments. Like, yes, the options are overly assumptive about the players motives, but his behavior post ascension is legitimately abusive. A character who's going to stay with him needs to reconcile that in some way unless you're a doormat who wants to be walked over.

Astarion's clearly experiencing some regret / guilt post ascension, and from his behavior we can see that he's projecting his anger at himself onto the PC. He's not trying to win the PC over in that moment. His goal is to provoke them into showing their "true colors" through a love-test designed to be impossible. He wants the PC to lash out at him and call him a monster. If they do, he can write them off entirely and absolve himself as the victim in this situation for having been manipulated by a PC who supposedly "loved him".

So, that's kinda the issue. There isn't a way to smooth things over. His goal is to hurt you, plain and simple. No amount of agreeing with his decision or reassuring him should necessarily be able to change that. The only way to prove it to him is to become his spawn, an act that is essentially surrendering your boundaries and control as a show of loyalty.

Given all that, what is missing? A character who is happy with the outcome and wants to maintain the status quo should probably be calling out his negative attitude / demeanor, but if you want to ignore it, fine. Either way, it should still run up into the same ultimatum: become my spawn or we're done. I could see some attempts to reassure him that what he did shouldn't weigh on him or promises that you're loyal no matter what, but those are all gonna run up against the "prove it by becoming my spawn" test still.

I think what would really help is a:

So, tell me what you desire. What can I do for my favorite pet?

> 5. "What is this really about Astarion?"

that can quickly get us to some version of "You made me this, if you really love me, prove it! Become my spawn!"

damn u got me... saw right thru my evangelical crusade... the bible says u have to renounce ascended astarion in the name of the lord or u will burn in the fires of hell like a butthole after too many jalapeno poppers... repent while u still can it's not too late u can be a moral activist too

He’s not abusive in my RP - I envisioned a cross between Frank N Furter and Dracula and that’s exactly what I got. It may not be to everyone’s taste but that’s why this is an RP.


Astarion: It feels so good. Freedom - true freedom. Finally.

Astarion: I can feel my strength growing. Every day that passes, I gain new abilities.

Astarion: You know, now that our enemies have fallen, I might be the most powerful person in the world.

Astarion: And as you're my consort, that makes us the most powerful people in the world.

Tav: I wouldn't want it any other way.

Astarion: And neither would I. Together, we can do anything.

Astarion: The world is ours for the taking. So, what would you like?

Tav: I want to see the world, with you at my side.

Astarion: Then you shall. We'll travel the lands together, tasting everything Faerun has to offer.

Astarion: Perharps we'll find somewhere we'd like to stay for a century or two - perhaps not.

Astarion: We have a beautiful, bloody future to look forward to, my love. I can't be sure what it holds for us, but I know one thing.

Astarion: This is going to be fun.

He doesn’t sound like he’s bitter here… or feels regret or guilt. It sounds like he’s got everything he ever wanted.

Well, if your character is an bad_guy, then these options suit them, so I don't see the point in deleting it, only adding new ones. I mean, he literally asked what we wanted. What's offensive about that? At that moment, he asks a question and calls you a pet, as he called you before. To see something offensive in this, you need to look at it in a special way. Literally before that, he can call you his "blood bag" and you are not offended. And now you're offended? A very strange way of looking at things.



Well, you literally didn't read my post and just wrote a standard set of phrases for Spawn lovers. I even checked Bingo Fixers, you almost won! You wrote about everything you could, but not about the topic that is being discussed here. You saw the word "Ascended" and something in your head immediately broke. If you are here to provoke people, then I think I should contact moderator.




You absolutely correctly noticed that dialogue in the finale and after the ritual is very different. The atmosphere is different, as if the character was written by completely different people.

I must say if you do not sleep and get the ending of "mortal", A. Astarion's romance looks much better, simply because you miss this stupid dialogue that we are discussing here.

I hope, you realise, that you just named two posterchilds of abusive behaviour. Both Frank'N'Further and Dracula are highly toxic and abusive and I'm more than a bit troubled, that you would use them as examples for not abusive behaviour. But then, people are trying to excuse Edward Cullen and Christian Grey, who frankly both belong in jail.

Edit: I'm not really interested in talking about ascended Astarion, but I'm very familiar with both Bram Stokers work ( and I'm not talking about the mostly unfaithful movies, I'm talking about the book) and the Rocky Horror Show and had to pinch in here.

Based on your speculation, all vampires are offensive and toxic. But in those days it was an example of romanticism. I mean, the girls even liked gaslighter Lestat, so... I don't see that as a problem. Modern views on past images can spoil your impression. You should also know heroines of these novels rarely showed aggression towards their "abuser". They're fascinated by them. Which leads us to the fact that regardless of the behavior evil character, we can still show sympathy for him. But I still don't see anything so offensive in the question "what do you want", sorry. The image of Dracula is also considered sexy, romantic and dangerous, that's the point. This is not news.

I'm sorry, Dracula was never meant to be romantic or sexy. I'm talking about the original novel, not the movies. Dracula didn't look like Frank Langella, Christopher Lee or Gary Oldman. He looked dead, smelled dead and used everyone around him.

If you like toxic characters, I'm not kinkshaming, but as a fan of gothic literature, I have to set things straight here.
Lestat btw was not a nice person either and he is written in modern times, same as Edward Cullen ( or Christian Grey besides not being a vampire). I don't care, if you like toxic characters, but at least acknowledge, that they are toxic. From what I saw of ascended Astarion, I would kill him right away, if he would accidentally ascend in my games, because yes, he is toxic too.

And most vampires are offensive and toxic by nature. They kill people. Yes, you have the occasional good vampire, like in Barbara Hamblys novels or maybe Beckett, the signature character for clan Gangrel in Vampire the Masquerade ( there are actually some decent characters). There is Daedalus from Kindred- the Embraced and some others. I would say, that Louis from the Anne Rice novels at least tries to be as good as possible ( in Rice's novels, vampires have to kill their victims, unlike in other media/books).
The point is, I don't care, if you like ascended Astarion, Dracula, Edward Cullen or Lestat, I just want to set the record straight.